Patriot Act extended

[JsJs24]

Re: Patriot Act extended

I am either totally out in left field or 100% correct, and cause we've been debating this stuff for 6 years i'm gonna post my WTF is really going on in the world.

YEARS AND THE WORLD WILL BE BETTER OFF, THE WHOLE WIDE WORLD

so, now i will pray for this outcome everday

good luck too all

I hear you Trip and understand what you think, but I don't think this is the case. I believe the Patriot Act is and always was meant to take away our 4th Amendment right. If it was only for the war then why are they allowing cops to use it for drug busts and everything else. In regard to the cops everywhere, that is because American is becoming a police state, much like Fascist Italy and **** Germany had. We are not to that extreme yet but the seeds are definitely sewn. We are at the point where Americans are worried and scared when a cop confronts them or pulls them over, even if they know they are a law abiding citizen. A large number of those in law enforcement love the power and I believe it's the only reason they signed up.

A huge misunderstanding by most people and the government is that wars are good for the economy. I don't believe that to be the case at all, nor do I believe it is what got us out of the Great Depression. The war is what is bankrupting us, along with SS and Medicaid. There is no profit to be made in war. The government can only spend what it prints out of thin air or borrows because there is not enough tax revenue to cover it. This will prove true if we continue to remain at war. Our currency will go bust. All that is holding it up is confidence. China has already lost theirs and it showed when they sold off 97% of their U.S. bonds last week. Of course we do have the guns and power to destroy any country out there which is why we may drag it out longer than most countries would be able to, but eventually something drastic will have to occur. The reason gold and silver are so high is because people are losing confidence in the dollar. If you watch the market gold and silver are up when the dollar is down, and vice versa. This is true across the world no just in U.S. currency. Investors want a safe haven to put their money and gold is that place. Inflation has set in at a fairly high rate but the CPI won't reveal it because they exclude food and fuel. How ridiculous is that? Lol! The two most important things we spend on other than mortgages and they don't even include it. Fuel and commodities are up significantly which indicates inflation has set in. If all one does is listens to the government they will never know the facts. The government is full of propaganda. They will not tell us the truth. Even the GDP is a poor indicator of how well the economy is performing. Then you can look at M0, M1, and M2, but guess what, they stopped using M3. The government is shady, which proves they are hiding the truth. Why can't the Federal Reserve be audited? Did you know that the most of the money from the bailouts that the Federal Reserve printed went to foreign banks?

There are no good intentions done by the government. The government knows no bounds and only intends to grow as large as it can - leviathan. And the fact that they can't stand Ron Paul proves even more how corrupt they are. The one man who represents freedom and prosperity more than any other politician living or dead imo and nobody in either party likes him. It's because he is not corrupt. I have even heard the news claim that if he is elected we would lose our freedoms. That is despicable. The one man who truly represents freedom and they claim he will take it away. But there are idiots out there who will believe that. Most Americans believe anything you feed them as long as it is not the truth. They are afraid of the truth. And that my friend is why we are headed for trouble.

[trip]

Re: Patriot Act extended

I am either totally out in left field or 100% correct, and cause we've been debating this stuff for 6 years i'm gonna post my WTF is really going on in the world.

IMHO, the patriot act is the lynch pin, for whatever reason i get a total sense of dred with this bill, rules or whatever you want to call it, it is imho, propaganda personified and a total boa constricter of freedom

yet, sometimes you gotta think what the benefit is, and why the it was enacted and what are the benefits, be damned the damage or colloateral damage

I'm getting a sense this is legislation that in 90 years will be on par with the federal reserve act.

Here's my summary

We have Too Big Too Fail Banks

We have Too Politically Connected Corporations to not have the government protect your overseas business interests no matter, ie, legally, financially, militarily, and this positions in halls of power world wide is understood by other rich people in other countries, they get the gig and know how too game the system, ie, u can ride with us, get rich, but not big or dominant, capiche

We are too Politically Dominant worldwide, (freedom is univsersal desire by all humans)
too even consider any other postion, and or alternative.

thus, the only risk to this scenario is local civil unrest, ie, terrorism by our own people on our own govt.

The War on Terror, Sun Tsu would say, it's all about diverstion strategies

War is always always good for business, what better war than a War that can never ever end.............................

I'm really really starting to believe our government fears it's own people, not that that is it's main intention................i somewhat believe they have good intentions.........yet they are so big and powerfull they can't even fathom too begin unintended consequences.

I write this because today, to sign up a child for summer school in my city we had too go too sign up, there were two cops there, wtf, 60 parents, summer school and u need two frgn cops, GOVT. ARE THERE ACTIONS, they are scared too death of us

In my heart of hearts I cannot explain this last decade any other way.

And with each passing day, I will now pray, which is i feel the only power i have, for Ron Paul to be victorious.............................

Why you might ask, YOU PULL THE MILITARY HOME WORLDWIDE, and watch how many companies stop shipping jobs overseas becasue they will not have the full faith and credit and banking of the biggest military in the world

AND IMHO WE WILL ROCK THIS ECONOMY FOR 30 MORE YEARS AND THE WORLD WILL BE BETTER OFF, THE WHOLE WIDE WORLD

so, now i will pray for this outcome everday

good luck too all

[JsJs24]

Re: Patriot Act extended

tsa is government regulatory body, i'm not too keen on most govt regs being good for business, so tsa good for business is a generalization

u guys take specifics and generalize

i said it was good for THERE business

osi, what's the point, that is how business is done

right wrong or indifferent we are the government

i'm sure you can google tsa, airlines and lobbying and find out, yet, i can't fathom how they are not, this impacts there business tremendously, what was it in 2006 we all woke up and couldn't carry on small bottles of liquids, how do u think that effected them, and slowly that rule has been modified to whatever it is today, which i haven't a clue what it is

I take it for what it is, which is bad for business. There are a lot of people in this country that quit traveling because of the TSA and all their rules. I know everyone at my work site chooses to drive to AZ (8-9 hours) instead of flying. It's because they don't want to hassle with TSA and getting to the airport early, etc.

And it is not a good thing that lobbyists got the government to accept x-ray machines that have not been properly tested in a test environment. There are scientists complaining about that. They said the company that makes the machines was aloud to do their own tests at their factory,and did not have to use the specific types of equipment required to read those levels of radiation. So basically it could be very hazardous to your health to go through them but since lobbyists convinced the TSA to use them it's a done deal.

I strongly suggest you read Human Action by Ludwig von Mises. I think you would enjoy the book very much and it would clear up a lot. After that maybe you could read some of Hayek's work, such as The Road to Serfdom. Hayek does an excellent job of explaining why it is bad to have a centrally planned economy.

[trip]

Re: Patriot Act extended

tsa is government regulatory body, i'm not too keen on most govt regs being good for business, so tsa good for business is a generalization

u guys take specifics and generalize

i said it was good for THERE business

osi, what's the point, that is how business is done

right wrong or indifferent we are the government

i'm sure you can google tsa, airlines and lobbying and find out, yet, i can't fathom how they are not, this impacts there business tremendously, what was it in 2006 we all woke up and couldn't carry on small bottles of liquids, how do u think that effected them, and slowly that rule has been modified to whatever it is today, which i haven't a clue what it is

[FUZO]

Re: Patriot Act extended

YOU DID SAY IT TRIP

[JsJs24]

Re: Patriot Act extended

closer, you guys often say i say things i never do

I never ever said TSA was good for business...........I said TSA is supported by the airlines industry and most likely thru lobbying efforts

I didn't change your words Trip, here is what you said:

"TSA imho is good for there business, travelers are required to follow govt rules, not airline rules, are on time, safer, gives them more free time to charge for fee's, if it was always rush rush rush, staying on schedule would be more important"

In regard to airlines supporting TSA, I would have to see the proof. TSA has led to many people no longer traveling by air. And how can you say it forces people to be on time? I would bet more people miss flights now because of the TSA. For an insight of who lobbies for the TSA here are some fun little facts:
Rapiscan of OSI Systems is one of the two manufacturers of the body scan machines TSA has introduced at our nation’s airports. Its CEO is Deepak Chopra who contributed the max amount to Obama's campaign and accompanied the President on his trip to India.
And George Soros owns over 11,000 shares of Rapiscan.
And there are actual lobbyists who work for Rapiscan.
Here's an article on it.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/21/body-scanner-ceo-obama-india/

It's obviously not the airlines who are lobbyists for the TSA. Perhaps in some instances but not on the main machines. It is the companies who make the machines such as OSI and L-3.

You trust the government much more than I do Trip. I see through the smoke and screens. Most everything that goes on with regard to regulations has a lobbyist pushing it through. If you don't believe that to be a bad thing for Americans, small businesses, and American in general then I don't know what else to say.

[trip]

Re: Patriot Act extended

closer, you guys often say i say things i never do

I never ever said TSA was good for business...........I said TSA is supported by the airlines industry and most likely thru lobbying efforts..............it takes costs and legal responsibilities totally off there plates, and has forced people to be on time and have there shyte in order.........i would imagine there insurance went sky high after 9-11 for fear of being sued to high heaven, now it is probably very low because it all falls on TSA, and good luck suing the govt

I did not say prices went up in 2000, with the internet the marginal seat propably went down, and the overall price staid at 250 bucks, it was not until 2006 that airline seats started to rise and the prices have stuck and then in 2009 they started fee's, yes, the public grumbled but airlines had no choice

and yes it is a pain in regulatory ass to get a flight route alot of that has to do with airports, whose goal is to be a hub, not a piece of real estate to rent and have marginal companies do quick flips, it costs a shyte load of money to renovate a gate, along with how a new player effects the main tenant

then u got FAA who has 7,000 planes criss crossing all the time and don't want to deal with rinky dink shyte

again my point is airlines probably view the TSA as here to stay forever, if it's here forever there best most profitable option is to have major influence on it's direction

[FUZO]

Re: Patriot Act extended

Only somene like Trip who is a liberal would say TSA is good for business. Trip did you say you worked for the airline if so what did you do. I still work for the airlines and witnissed first hand TSA and how bad they are and how bad they dont give a fuk about there job and let stuff through when there looking right at the x-ray machine.You say are on time who is on time,the passenger at there filght- NOT the TSA agent is on time-NOT you have no clue how a airline works outside do you

[JsJs24]

Re: Patriot Act extended

u day man, embry riddle is the best, crashed there one night when i was hitch hiking on the east coast

construction 20 years in dallas forth worth, read the papers everyday

see u think we have different perceptions of free market, i don't

dereg, lead to firing of air traffic controllers.............massive amounts of capital went into air line companies, volume of miles flown expanded rapidly, prices went down down down to the ring of fire

basically up too about 2005 u could fly round trip anywhere in us for about 250 bucks

now jet fuel goes parabolic, while all this is going on they are retiring planes in the air, i'm not 100% exact on the numbers, yet, i think we have about 60% of the number in the planes in operation as we did in 2000........

most flights now fly close to capacity, as opposed to after 9-11 when it dropped to as low as 60% capacity and took 7 years to get back over 80 and then the financial collapse hit

so from 85-2005 the masses were use to paying 250 a ticket, the first 15 years airlines made good money with jet fuel being low

2000 hits it all changes, masses still use to 250 and will not pay more, and or can't

How did you crash there? Do you mean slept at the Daytona Beach campus? Or literally crashed there...lol.

As I said, there are less planes now which makes it seem as if people are traveling more because the planes are full. Yet they are only full because there are less flights.

Regulations are what cause prices to go up. You said yourself when 2000 hit airfare went up, but really it was after 9-11-2001. Once the security measures were put in place prices had to go up. Yes the fuel prices caused this too but Southwest was not affected because they bought futures in fuel when it was low.

The TSA is the worst thing the airlines have had happen to them. I could go on all day about the TSA but let's just leave it at that. But what really ticks me off about the TSA is how they trample on our 4th Amendment rights. It's hard to believe you support Ron Paul, or maybe you don't, because he is no fan of the TSA or any other government agency that affects the private sector.

Yes some regulation is okay, but most of the time it gets out of hand and hampers the market. Surely you can realize that the federal government doesn't understand how to be efficient in anything they do, nor do they understand how businesses operated. Read up on the CAB if you haven't already to see how bad it was for the airlines when they set airfares, routes, etc. If an airline wanted to operate a new route it often took years for approval or disapproval. Absolutely ridiculous.

In regard to the Air Traffic Controllers that were fired by Reagan. Well, they deserved it. The law stated that federal union employees are not allowed to protest. Reagan gave them ample warning and they called his bluff. Good riddance.

Whether we view the market the same or not I am not sure, but we obviously have different opinions on how it should operate. I am not a fan of intervention. I believe the businesses are better left alone, and for consumers to be able to choose who they want to do business with. We are witnessing the end of the almost free market as we know it. We have a corporatist President, which is just as bad as a socialist. The large businesses are becoming the rulers of the world with the government and bureaucrats driving them. And how do the businesses get so big? Because lobbyists pay off politicians to push through legislation for them to make it impossible for small businesses to survive. That's the end result of regulation. Regulations are typically created specifically for businesses, but only for those large enough to afford the campaign donations for the dirty politicians.

[trip]

Re: Patriot Act extended

I do understand. I graduated from Embry-Riddle and work in aviation. Check the numbers if you think I'm wrong on airline travel being down from 2008. The Airline Deregulation act of 1978 was the greatest thing that happened to the airlines. This phased out the CAB's role of setting fares, routes, etc. After these changes took place is when more competition began to surface, which included "no frills" flying airlines. Americans who made average salaries were now more able to afford to travel. Southwest became a bigger player in the industry. But then came the Wright Amendment. This was pushed through Congress by large interest groups to restrict competition and limit the destinations for airlines to those surrounding Texas if departing from Love Field. Read up on that one if you're not already familiar with it. It is just one more obvious example of government intervention screwing up the market and making it harder on consumers. If government regulation was such a good thing then why is Amtrak so worthless. Amtrak hasn't made a profit since it was taken over by the government.

But why do you think airlines would want to cut meals when they know the passengers are complaining about it? And charging for bags is not a popular idea either. Southwest has capitalized from not charging for bags. It is one of the many reasons I travel Southwest almost exclusively. The problem here once again Trip is that you and I have different perceptions of how the private sector operates. It sounds like you may favor regulation, whereas I support deregulation. I believe the market works best without intervention from the government.

u day man, embry riddle is the best, crashed there one night when i was hitch hiking on the east coast

construction 20 years in dallas forth worth, read the papers everyday

see u think we have different perceptions of free market, i don't

dereg, lead to firing of air traffic controllers.............massive amounts of capital went into air line companies, volume of miles flown expanded rapidly, prices went down down down to the ring of fire

basically up too about 2005 u could fly round trip anywhere in us for about 250 bucks

now jet fuel goes parabolic, while all this is going on they are retiring planes in the air, i'm not 100% exact on the numbers, yet, i think we have about 60% of the number in the planes in operation as we did in 2000........

most flights now fly close to capacity, as opposed to after 9-11 when it dropped to as low as 60% capacity and took 7 years to get back over 80 and then the financial collapse hit

so from 85-2005 the masses were use to paying 250 a ticket, the first 15 years airlines made good money with jet fuel being low

2000 hits it all changes, masses still use to 250 and will not pay more, and or can't

airlines since 2005 have been essentially forced to make and post more consistent profits if they want access to capital

so they start adding on fee's and they track em and market accepts it, and they add em on cause it is profitable

swest doesn't promote fee's mainly because 80% of there travelers are probably statistically only travel for 3 days, are veteran travelers and thus they don't carry extra crap, have there own water and snacks etc.

TSA imho is good for there business, travelers are required to follow govt rules, not airline rules, are on time, safer, gives them more free time to charge for fee's, if it was always rush rush rush, staying on schedule would be more important

do we have different perception on how private sector operates, i don't know, i'm just confident on both the global aspects, the financial aspects, and the detailed aspects on how things work or i lose money, my own, not others

regulation, without it u have chaos, so regulation needs to be chosen and why

if u r in airline bizz, u know six sigma, which ain't cheap yet on large large volumes it's a money maker, it'd be nice have it for laws somehow

imho, we have so many laws few no what they are and why and thus certain people abuse it for profit, like ron paul, less laws, but good ones that are enforced for the right reasons

[trip]

Re: Patriot Act extended

You seem to think your never wrong but our country is broke but you dont think so

i'm rubber, you're glue......................

i am often wrong, and say so, when i do research and gather facts i am confident of my position unless data and accompanying life cycles of data and how they respond react leads me to understand my errors

when u r talking huge numbers, the mitigating factor is the rate of change of the rate of change

[JsJs24]

Re: Patriot Act extended

js, u have too understand 30 years in the airlines business

fuzo, i'm not wrong

yes, i'm home 24-7 I take care of my mother with alzheimer because I will not put her in a home, i trade stocks, i do more research in a month than most do in a lifetime

I do understand. I graduated from Embry-Riddle and work in aviation. Check the numbers if you think I'm wrong on airline travel being down from 2008. The Airline Deregulation act of 1978 was the greatest thing that happened to the airlines. This phased out the CAB's role of setting fares, routes, etc. After these changes took place is when more competition began to surface, which included "no frills" flying airlines. Americans who made average salaries were now more able to afford to travel. Southwest became a bigger player in the industry. But then came the Wright Amendment. This was pushed through Congress by large interest groups to restrict competition and limit the destinations for airlines to those surrounding Texas if departing from Love Field. Read up on that one if you're not already familiar with it. It is just one more obvious example of government intervention screwing up the market and making it harder on consumers. If government regulation was such a good thing then why is Amtrak so worthless. Amtrak hasn't made a profit since it was taken over by the government.

But why do you think airlines would want to cut meals when they know the passengers are complaining about it? And charging for bags is not a popular idea either. Southwest has capitalized from not charging for bags. It is one of the many reasons I travel Southwest almost exclusively. The problem here once again Trip is that you and I have different perceptions of how the private sector operates. It sounds like you may favor regulation, whereas I support deregulation. I believe the market works best without intervention from the government.

[FUZO]

Re: Patriot Act extended

js, u have too understand 30 years in the airlines business

fuzo, i'm not wrong

yes, i'm home 24-7 I take care of my mother with alzheimer because I will not put her in a home, i trade stocks, i do more research in a month than most do in a lifetime

You seem to think your never wrong but our country is broke but you dont think so

[trip]

Re: Patriot Act extended

js, u have too understand 30 years in the airlines business

fuzo, i'm not wrong

yes, i'm home 24-7 I take care of my mother with alzheimer because I will not put her in a home, i trade stocks, i do more research in a month than most do in a lifetime

[FUZO]

Re: Patriot Act extended

js, they charge for bag and cut meals because it is the free market at work

the combo is derugulation + investment capital + the internet + 9-11 + rising expense over a 30 year time frame

DUDE YOU ARE SO WRONG ABOUT THE AIRLINES,TRIP WHAT DO YOU DO IN LIFE DO YOU WORK. OR ARE YOU RETIRED AND STAY HOME 24-7 WHAT DO YOU DO