Sodium Usnate /usnic acid

[Speedracer59]

TweetSorry I know it is the wrong forum but cant get anything in the supps. forum. Does anyone know where to get it . The only place I knew of had to quit selling it (1fast400).

[gearedup]

TweetProbably because it is really bad for you and your liver!

[jack hust]

Tweeti would not use it bro try diet and eca

[Harvey Balboner]

Tweethttps://www.bdcnutrition.com/

Also some of the Tae Bo supplements have usnic acid in them.

[Sldgehmr]

Tweetqfac.com they should have it as well

[YellowJacket]

Tweetbdcnutrition.com no longer exists. If you're wanting to research UA and potentially purchase it, the link is in my signature.

[Harvey Balboner]

TweetI was just about to order from bdc, I had that page book marked.

[TxLonghorn]

TweetUsnic acid is bad news. Don't do it. Dnp is much safer and 10 times more effective.

Did I mention staying away from it? If not, stay away...Baaaad.

[YellowJacket]

Tweet

Originally posted by TxLonghorn
Usnic acid is bad news. Don't do it. Dnp is much safer and 10 times more effective.

Did I mention staying away from it? If not, stay away...Baaaad.

Got any references to back that up? Better find some.


(Hint: You're not going to, but I'll let you try)

[bigjim33]

Tweetposted by macro........

UA is generally a much weaker uncoupler than DNP.. HOWEVER THERE ARE VERY UNPLEASANT EXCEPTIONS..

this study bodes very ill for the use of usnic acid and the link to liver failure/cancer..

UA requires 1/50 the dose to cause complete halt of oxidative phoshoralation in the liver as compared to DNP...

interesting that the users of LIPO-k have liver failure.

1: Nat Toxins 1996;4(2):96-102 Related Articles, Links


Lichen acids as uncouplers of oxidative phosphorylation of mouse-liver mitochondria.

Abo-Khatwa AN, al-Robai AA, al-Jawhari DA.

Department of Biochemistry, Faculty of Science, King Abdulaziz University, Jeddah, Saudi Arabia.

Three lichen acids-namely, (+)usnic acid, vulpinic acid, and atranorin-were isolated from three lichen species (Usnea articulata, Letharia vulpina, and Parmelia tinctorum, respectively). The effects of these lichen products on mice-liver mitochondrial oxidative functions in various respiratory states and on oxidative phosphorylation were studied polarographically in vitro. The lichen acids exhibited characteristics of the 2,4-dinitrophenol (DNP), a classical uncoupler of oxidative phosphorylation. Thus, they released respiratory control and oligomycin inhibited respiration, hindered ATP synthesis, and enhanced Mg(+2)-ATPase activity. (+)Usnic acid at a concentration of 0.75 microM inhibited ADP/O ratio by 50%, caused maximal stimulation of both state-4 respiration (100%) and ATPase activity (300%). Atranorin was the only lichen acid with no significant effect on ATPase. The uncoupling effect was dose-dependent in all cases. The minimal concentrations required to cause complete uncoupling of oxidative phosphorylation were as follows: (+)usnic acid (1 microM), vulpinic acid, atranorin (5 microM) and DNP (50 microM). It was postulated that the three lichen acids induce uncoupling by acting on the inner mitochondrial membrane through their lipophilic properties and protonophoric activities

[AnotherUser]

Tweethttps://www.advancedbodysolutions.com has it. bigjim33, I've researched this compound extensively and the study you posted is the ONLY one which seems to mention this affect on the liver. Granted one is better than none, but one study does NOT prove something. I've used SU several times and will continue to use it while dieting. Plain and simple, IT WORKS. However, I WOULD recommend using Milk Thistle along with it and maybe some ALA.

[bigjim33]

Tweetposted by MR. X........

Hello everyone, long time no talk. Well, I'm glad everyone is waiting to hear on Usnic acid. I've done it MANY times at different doses and w/ different internal and external factors. I've gotten blood tested w/ it and have done my research on it since Lipokinetix came out. After all, being a good friend of Dan Duchaine, I never stopped the process of thinking that comes w/ being a bodybuilder.

1)
supplements containing usnic acid (or its sodium salt) have been implicated in fulminant hepatic failure (liver problems) in close to a dozen otherwise healthy people between the ages of 18 and 32.

2)
It is my belief that the misuse of this supplement will dramatically and irrevocably increase the risk of cancer, promote serious anomalies of the body's cellular reproductive mechanisms, and potentially lead to the death of the user (not much different from DNP)

For the record, there are currently 28 patents on file with the US Patent Office concerning usnic acid, including its use as a fungicide, antibiotic, antineoplastic, antituberculotic, and for the treatment of leishmaniasis and coccicoides (parasitic infestation of the intestines).

3)

A lot of studies that deal w/ usnic acid use mice (although we can extrapolate the data to men, as mice and men are both mammalian systems), usnic acid has been shown to increase clastogenic (chromosome or gene breaking) action in mouse femur (bone) cells, something that I know we all want to avoid unless we're looking forward to osteoporosis, bone cancers, and hip replacement surgery in the near future.

here's a ref:
6) J Ethnopharmacol 1991 Jul;33(3):217-20

Thanks to T-mag I did not have to repeat myself, after saying this a million times to people.

Conclusion, if you are willing to risk osteoporosis, bone cancers, or any other tumor possibilities then go ahead and use the product....I don't condone it, neither do I think it's a positive. I'm neutral, just read the above facts and make your own decision.

[gearedup]

Tweet

Originally posted by YellowJacket
Got any references to back that up? Better find some.


(Hint: You're not going to, but I'll let you try)

sorry I have liked your posts alot here except these seems you are behind it so much not to see what it can really do! Why was Lypokinetix banned? Because people using it were getting serious liver damage and the US determined it was bad for health the company is getting and got sued and they pulled it from the market!

I haver to agree with everything I have seen on it and the peoplke that had liver problems I know there was a mod from BSS that was involved in using it before anyone diud a very long time ago and I think he even got liver problems from it!

I just hope 2 things you dont hurt anyone or get sued by anyone I truly feel for you stay safe brpo but everyone is old enough here to make there own opinions and judgements so I respect it!

[gearedup]

TweetSTRAIGHT FROM THE FDA WEBSITE! LIPOKINETIX WAS TAKEN OFF THE SHELVES BECAUSE THE UA CAUSED LIVER PROBLEMS AND FAILURE!


FDA Warns Consumers Not to Use the Dietary Supplement Lipokinetix
The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is warning consumers immediately to stop use of the product Lipokinetix®, marketed as a dietary supplement by Syntrax Innovations, Inc. Lipokinetix has been implicated in a number of serious liver injuries. FDA has received multiple reports of persons who developed liver injury or liver failure while using Lipokinetix.

Lipokinetix is marketed for weight loss. It contains the ingredients norephedrine (also known as phenylpropanolamine or PPA), caffeine, yohimbine, diiodothyronine, and sodium usniate. The injuries reported to FDA occurred in persons between 20 and 32 years of age. No apparent cause of liver injury was identified in these reports other than use of Lipokinetix. Liver injury developed between 2 weeks and 3 months of Lipokinetix use.

FDA urges consumers to discontinue use of Lipokinetix and consult their physician if they are experiencing symptoms possibly associated with this product, particularly nausea, weakness or fatigue, abdominal pain, or any change in skin color. Consumers or health care professionals who are aware of adverse effects after the use of this or other dietary supplement products can report the adverse event to FDA's MedWatch adverse event and product problem hot line at 1-800-FDA-1088 or via the internet (https://www.fda.gov/medwatch/how.htm).

####

For further information, see https://www.fda.gov/medwatch/safety/2...y01.htm#lipoki

[bigjim33]

Tweethttps://www.testosterone.net/html/body_84suppl.html

Usnic acid is a naturally occurring chemical typically found in the Unsnea laevis Nylander (a lichen) native to the Venezuelan Andes mountains1 where the lichen is used by primitive endogenous farmers as an antibiotic. And, not surprisingly, the drug and medical community has been studying the substance for 20 years or so for possible use in a variety of applications.

Most recently, usnic acid, when applied topically, has been found to be quite useful in treating intravaginal genital warts (human papillomavirus lesions),2 being almost 100% effective at destroying the warts when used in conjunction with zinc sulfate. While this is utterly fascinating to the readership, and probably even more so to our promiscuous readers, usnic acid has some other characteristics and uses that I'm sure you'll find a bit more worrisome and more appropriate for a "Consumer Watchdawg" article.

Usnic acid has rather profound antimycobacterial effects against tuberculosis-type organisms3 and its antimitotic (read "stops cell division in its tracks") effects on a cornucopia of biological systems—including humans4—are dangerously intriguing. And yes, much to Duchaine's credit, usnic acid exhibits the characteristics of 2,4-dinitrophenonel (oxidative phosphorylation), at least in vitro against mouse liver mitochondria,5 as it probably penetrates the inner mitochondrial membrane through its lipophilic characteristics.

And since we're speaking of mice and not men (although we can extrapolate the data to men, as mice and men are both mammalian systems), usnic acid has been shown to increase clastogenic (chromosome or gene breaking) action in mouse femur (bone) cells,6 something that I know we all want to avoid unless we're looking forward to osteoporosis, bone cancers, and hip replacement surgery in the near future.

It was also shown in the same study to be a mitodepressive agent, possibly interfering with RNA biosynthesis and causing a marked decrease in "baby erythrocytes" (pre-red blood cells). It's believed that this effect of usnic acid is on the "spindle apparatus" (cell architecture, so to speak) which would put it in a similar category to the noted anticancer drug, Taxol!

Now, Duchaine isn't the first person to "discover" interesting uses for usnic acid. Vaginal genital warts notwithstanding, the Germans used usnic acid in their deodorants. They stopped, however, when it started causing contact eczema in quite a few people,7 as well as contact dermatitis in others.8

So how does, say, a mammalian organism "deal" with this stuff (hey, Brock, give me the pharmacokinetic story)? Glad that you asked. Plasma usnic acid levels showed a triexponential elimination with a mean +/- SD terminal half-life of 10.7 +/- 4.6 hr. Peak plasma level (cmax) of 32.5 +/- 6.8 micrograms/ml was achieved in 12.2 +/- 3.8 hr (tmax). Mean absolute bioavailability of usnic acid following oral administration was 77.8%.9 In other words, the body absorbs it rather well, and it hangs around for a long time.

Due to the long half-life and excellent bioavailability of oral usnic acid, it's almost inevitable that no matter what's printed on the warning label on the bottle, someone will overdose and really hurt themselves with this chemical. Also, usnic acid, once inside your bloodstream, is highly protein-bound at a level of approximately 99.2%. Tissue distribution studies of usnic acid undertaken in rats showed that usnic acid was well distributed into well-perfused organs.10 The tissue:plasma ratio in lungs was exceptionally high, which might be advantageous if you have drug-resistant tuberculosis, but this particular property wouldn't help anybody trying to lose fat. In fact, it's readily evident that usnic acid, because it collects in well-perfused organs (heart, liver, kidney, brain, etc.), will most likely manifest symptoms of overdose in these organs. Swell, huh?

So let me offer a less than genuine congratulations to Dan Duchaine for managing to bring to market what is, in my opinion, easily the nastiest, most dangerous food supplement in history.

An advertisement for HPDx discloses that the "development team was led by an MD, PhD," yet this person isn't named. I find it highly dubious that this alleged person's name isn't mentioned, and I'm curious to know if the individual alluded to (if he exists at all) is licensed to practice medicine in the United States. Maybe this individual has been debarred and had his license irrevocably yanked. Or maybe he's just smart by staying out of the picture.

The advertisement also touts the safety of this product in humans, yet an exhaustive literature search by yours truly failed to turn up any published data on the safety of using usnic acid in humans for fat loss. Dan, as Cuba Gooding, Jr. told Tom Cruise in the movie "Jerry Maguire," show me the money!!!

Show me the human trial conducted in accordance with ICH and Declaration of Helsinki guidlelines. Dan, show me where your new "deadly fat-burner" has been clinically demonstrated to be safe and/or effective. Just show me one legit study, Dan!!!

The website (www.ppproducts.com) for the company promoting this crap has, in their advertising literature, most assuredly violated FDA and FTC guidelines. The company claims to be conducting two studies at the university level with usnic acid. But for what purpose—as a last-ditch attempt to save someone who has metastic bone cancer and is likely to die anyway?

When you conduct a study at any university in the United States, Canada, or Europe, you must have it approved by either an Institutional Review Board (IRB) or an Institutional Ethics Committee (IEC). There's no way around this! So here's an open challenge to Dan Duchaine: please name the universities that you claim are investigating usnic acid in the manner described at the above website. I dare you. Screw that, I double-dawg dare you!!!

And another thing, shouldn't you have conducted such studies (if you're even doing so, which I'm going to come out right here and say is most likely a bold-faced lie on your part) before you sold this crap? What if the study participants grow a third nut or something? "Oops, sorry!!!" won't cut it this time.

It turns out that there's someone else involved with this who has utterly left me in a replete state of disappointment and sadness. Shelly Hominuik is the owner of QFAC (Quest for Anabolic Condition), and she was the first person to actively market Duchaine's new death diet pill. In the last few days, I—along with several other people—have done everything we could to convince Ms. Hominuk that usnic acid is the most vile supplement ever created. At first, she pleaded ignorance: "...I didn't know how bad this stuff might be" is what Shelly personally conveyed to me. If you sell something, I feel that you have a moral and ethical obligation to know something about what you're selling beforehand, especially if the information is readily available.

But I gave Hominuk the benefit of the doubt and sent her 47 published abstracts from peer-reviewed journals describing how vile usnic acid is. It didn't convince her. I then appealed to her to at least remove the item from sale at her website until such a time that she could ascertain that it was either safe (and she could then resume selling it) or unsafe. Shelley Hominuk was unwilling to do this. Shelley, I would suggest that you really sit back and reflect on your priorities for a while. This truly comes as such a disappointment to me, as I've previously had all positive experiences with Shelley and QFAC.

I'm quite confident that Mr. Duchaine and Ms. Hominuk will author a cogent rebuttal to my assertions. In fact, I look forward to it. Nonetheless, there's really no evidence that usnic acid is safe for casual use in humans and quite a bit of evidence that it's possibly incredibly dangerous.

If I wanted to lose fat at an accelerated rate, I think that I might opt to stick with stuff like MD6, Adipokinetix (without the theophylline in it), or one of the myriad of ECA-stack clones on the market. Yeah, you can overdose on these ECA-type thermogens, for sure. But we pretty much know the side effects from ECA-type stuff and can usually treat a case of tachycardia with a beta-blocker like atenolol or propanolol.

As for a mitotic spindle inhibitor (like usnic acid), the only people I know who are qualified enough to play with such drugs in humans are medical oncologists. Since I don't have cancer and don't want it, I will, as a prophylactic measure, avoid HPDx and usnic acid.

My prediction is that this chemical will be yanked off the market in Y2K but will probably cause the FDA and the FTC to come down very hard on the entire industry. If this prediction comes true, you can thank Dan Duchaine and Shelley Hominuk for this personally.

I'm truly sorry to bring all of you such bitter and bad tidings the night before Christmas. Please be safe and enjoy your holiday season. See you all in Y2K.


References

1) J Ethnopharmacol 1999 Sep;66(3):343-6
2) Minerva Ginecol 1999 Jun;51(6):255-60
3) Eur J Pharm Sci 1998 Apr;6(2):141-4
4) Cell Mol Life Sci 1997 Aug;53(8):667-72
5) Nat Toxins 1996;4(2):96-102
6) J Ethnopharmacol 1991 Jul;33(3):217-20
7) Dermatol Monatsschr 1987;173(4):221-5
8) Contact Dermatitis 1995 Oct;33(4):271-2
9) Drug Metab Dispos 1992 Nov-Dec;20(6):909-11
10) Drug Metabol Drug Interact 1995;12(1):53-63