IMPORTANT QUESTION

[TestRip7]

TweetDoes anyone have any info. on whether or not AAS have the potential to cause heart enlargement or growth??

I'm looking for medical studies or personal experiences.

[mick-G]

TweetNever saw anything on aas, but gh might. I would think that you would most likely have to be predisposed geneticly first. Ill see if i can find something.

[SMILEY FACE]

Tweetnot aas but gh yes..i read it somewhere..let me find it

[TestRip7]

TweetI found a few articles like these. This is kinda the direction I'm going for.

https://www.springerlink.com/content/1gjkvmvk21ydqa51/

https://anafit.ocservers.net/library/...0athletes..pdf

https://www.thieme-connect.com/ejourn...5/s-2003-40705




Let me know what you find Mick.

[TestRip7]

Tweet

not aas but gh yes..i read it somewhere..let me find it

Post it up for me buddy.

[SMILEY FACE]

Tweethope this will help:

https://www.tercica.com/medical/acromegaly.html

[TestRip7]

Tweet

hope this will help:

https://www.tercica.com/medical/acromegaly.html

You think IGF would have the same effects on the heart???

[SMILEY FACE]

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You think IGF would have the same effects on the heart???

honestly i dunno...i always kept my igf short and no more than 80mcg.. and gh is safe and once u start doing over 10 ius a day for long time, i would worry...
see igf1 comes from gh after it breaks down in the liver, but i dunno how igf works to be honest to u (medical way)...

Remember that igf1 is wayyyyyyyy stronger than gh and that is why u cant run it more than 5-6 weeks at a time

[TestRip7]

Tweet

honestly i dunno...i always kept my igf short and no more than 80mcg.. and gh is safe and once u start doing over 10 ius a day for long time, i would worry...
see igf1 comes from gh after it breaks down in the liver, but i dunno how igf works to be honest to u (medical way)...

Remember that igf1 is wayyyyyyyy stronger than gh and that is why u cant run it more than 5-6 weeks at a time

Yeah, Everything that I have read about IGF is about its ability to cause hyperplasia or actual creation of new muscle cells beyond what your body genetically had. I can def. see how in high doses that it would cause enlargement of the heart as well as other organs.

[mick-G]

TweetPerson from another board said the condition is referred to as athletes heart and happens with or w/o steroid use, 99% of the time it makes a more healthy heart (testosterone). Most common cause of death from an enlarged heart is when the walls of the left vent become thin and to weak to pump. Test is very healty for weak hearts. More importantly you need to find out what the person took and at what dosages, his training regimine, diet etc. Heart disease is the #1 killer, so saying someone died of aas just because he took them is sounding like another nit wit doc. I will post up some articles later.

[daddy1122]

TweetWhen i was on M1T that shit made my left ventricular wall grow twice the size. i was pretty freaked out, it was because my resting b/p was 220/90 and apparently i was holding a lot of water weight (i didnt see it but thats what my cardiologist said) the only good thing is that she said that it will go down as long as i do a lot of cardio (mind you this was about 4 years ago).

as mick-g posted, he is right, athletes have shown to have bigger right ventricles than non-athletes as they are usually running more but also requiring more testosterone to be produced. testosterone has also shown to be good for the heart, BUT most steroids that are just testosterone (ones that that have altered the chemical structure of testosterone) have shown that they harden arteries. thats really the only proven effect that steroids can have. when i had sat down with a HRT doctor he was tellin me that straight cypionate/enathate in safe ranges arent bad for you and can actually give you cardiac benefits, but high dosages can cause damage. he also said this about derivatives of testosterone as well...

feel free to correct me if i am wrong somewhere...

[daddy1122]

Tweet

When i was on M1T that shit made my left ventricular wall grow twice the size. i was pretty freaked out, it was because my resting b/p was 220/90 and apparently i was holding a lot of water weight (i didnt see it but thats what my cardiologist said) the only good thing is that she said that it will go down as long as i do a lot of cardio (mind you this was about 4 years ago).

as mick-g posted, he is right, athletes have shown to have bigger right ventricles than non-athletes as they are usually running more but also requiring more testosterone to be produced. testosterone has also shown to be good for the heart, BUT most steroids that are just testosterone (ones that that have altered the chemical structure of testosterone) have shown that they harden arteries. thats really the only proven effect that steroids can have. when i had sat down with a HRT doctor he was tellin me that straight cypionate/enathate in safe ranges arent bad for you and can actually give you cardiac benefits, but high dosages can cause damage. he also said this about derivatives of testosterone as well...

feel free to correct me if i am wrong somewhere...

meant to put "BUT most steroids that ARENT testosterone"....

[TestRip7]

Tweet

When i was on M1T that shit made my left ventricular wall grow twice the size. i was pretty freaked out, it was because my resting b/p was 220/90 and apparently i was holding a lot of water weight (i didnt see it but thats what my cardiologist said) the only good thing is that she said that it will go down as long as i do a lot of cardio (mind you this was about 4 years ago).

as mick-g posted, he is right, athletes have shown to have bigger right ventricles than non-athletes as they are usually running more but also requiring more testosterone to be produced. testosterone has also shown to be good for the heart, BUT most steroids that are just testosterone (ones that that have altered the chemical structure of testosterone) have shown that they harden arteries. thats really the only proven effect that steroids can have. when i had sat down with a HRT doctor he was tellin me that straight cypionate/enathate in safe ranges arent bad for you and can actually give you cardiac benefits, but high dosages can cause damage. he also said this about derivatives of testosterone as well...

feel free to correct me if i am wrong somewhere...

What dosages was the doc. reffering to when he said safe dosages? I'm assuming that he was reffering to HRT doses like in the neighborhood of 250mg /week. So anything outside that range with cyp, enath., prop or the like are harmful to the heart???

[daddy1122]

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What dosages was the doc. reffering to when he said safe dosages? I'm assuming that he was reffering to HRT doses like in the neighborhood of 250mg /week. So anything outside that range with cyp, enath., prop or the like are harmful to the heart???

Yes i believe he was talking about 250mgs/wk. But i was asking him from my perspective (21yrs old) and he was telling me that even at 250mgs a week you would still see very good muscle building effects and limiting potential side effects. i believe he had told me that you could go up to around 400mgs/wk and still be safe. but his main thing was that it being a synthetic hormone and taking it every week (most of his hrt is 250 every other week) that you donnt need HUGE dosages to see results, you will mainly see side effects. this was his belief (and there are other opinions for sure) but he was just saying dont take more than you need because you will just get more negatives than positives.

he didnt mention prop and at the time neither did i as i forgot about it, but did bring up tren, deca, winstrol, anadrol, dbol, etc.. can all inflict conjestive cardiac failure because their make-up isnt seen the same as straight testosterone by the body, the body recongnizes cyp, enth, and prop (guessing)..

[T-Man007]

TweetWell, I did some research on it and posted something a while back. There was a study done by Finish doctors/scientists (don't remember which ones) that used three study groups. One was natural, one on aas only and one on aas with GH. The only group that showed marked increase in left ventricle hypertrophy was the group on both aas and GH. Of course, the study was performed with the combination of resistence training as well. They said all three groups showed some increase as a result of the weight training but it was only the group with aas and GH that made them worry. Their conclusion was that aas alone, or natural, didn't not increase the left ventricle any differently.

One thing they did not state though, was whether or not these groups took part in cardio vascular training. This has been my worry all along and I got in a debate with someone about it and jazzrabbit posted something that stated that aas had no effect on hypertrophy of the left ventricle.

So, according to two studies I have read, the conclusion of experts is there is no effect from just aas use. However, like I stated, neither specifically states whether the subjects underwent cardio training. IMO, I would probably avoid high intensity cardio while on. With that said, it's a proven fact that you burn more 'fat' while doing lower intensity for longer periods and if one was to follow that model then I would assume they would be safer than someone who was on a high aas dose and performing intense cardio activity. This is just my assumption and I have yet to read anything to confirm it, it's just seems logical to me.