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    Thread: Ketotifen and Clen?

    1. #1
      sofargone561's Avatar
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      Default Ketotifen and Clen?



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      • Ketotifen and Clen?
      • Ketotifen and Clen?
      What Is It?
      Ketotifen is very safe antihistamine used extensively in Europe to treat bronchial asthma and allergies. It is also being studied as a treatment for colitis. When used for asthma, weight gain and an increase in appetite are among the most frequent side effects. Ketotifen also protects the cells in the stomach, small intestine and perhaps the rest of the gut from a number of toxins. A number of case studies suggest that it may be helpful treating skin problems such as acne. Ketotifen also reduces edema (swelling and puffiness caused by water retention) around sores.

      Ketotifen Studies
      German researchers have published data showing that ketotifen lowers tnf-alpha in the test tube. One study used ketotifen in combination with oxymethadone, a steroid like Megace that helps people gain weight, so it is hard to gauge what effect ketotifen had (the study notes a 14% reduction in TNF-alpha levels and weight gains of 11-12 pounds in less than four weeks). A larger placebo controlled study of this combination is underway. The other study used ketotifen by itself in eight patients with elevated TNF-alpha, (but no wasting). Taking ketotifen for 12 weeks, these patients gained an average of six pounds, had increases in their body cell mass and reductions in their TNF-alpha levels.

      Side Effects and Toxicity
      Ketotifen is virtually non-toxic (although it is not advised for patients with epilepsy). People who took twenty times the recommended dose (in suicide attempts) suffered no serious consequences (other than embarrassment). Its primary side effects seem to be temporary drowsiness, dry mouth,(and other mucuos membranes) appetite stimulation and weight gain.

      Dosing and side effects
      No studies have been done to find the most effective dose but the German researchers used 4 mg ED. Dan Duchaine (who discovered ketos use for BB) suggested 10mg ED but in my experience this much is not needed and makes u far too sleepy. I find that 3-4mg ED seems ideal. However, much higher doses have been shown to be quite safe with no adverse affects other than increased drowsiness and appetite – it will make u hungry for solid foods. You can take it divided in the day or all at once.

      Ketotifen and Clen
      Clenbuterol is a beta 2 agonist which has a limited anabolic effect during its first few days of use and afterward is normally used to fight fat. At higher doses, however, it can be catabolic to muscle and it must be cycled on a 2 week on, 2 week of basis or the beta 2 receptors that clen binds to become saturated and down regulate.

      Ketotifen’s magic is that it upregulates the beta-receptors including the beta 2s that clen uses. As long as you are taking ketotifen, it will continue to clean these receptors, never allowing them to downregulate – even while on a heavy clen cycle. That means you can continue to take clen indefinitely without having to cycle off to regenerate the receptors. 2-3mg ED can upregulate even severely shut down receptors within a week.

      It also means that you don’t need as much clen to get the same benefits. It seems u can take about 30-40% less clen and it be equally effective. FONZ posted that it also increases the number of receptor sites on the surface of the cell, allowing more clen to attach and perhaps this is the reason for the increased efficacy. Ketotifen also seems to lessen the sides of clen including the jitters.

      Ketotifen and ECA
      Perhaps an even better use for ketotifen is taking it with the ECA stack. While the thermogenic effect of ephedrine is not as potent as clen because it doesn't have a high receptor affinity, and it is not limited to beta-2 receptors. In fact it seems to have a good effect on beta 3 receptors as well, which act as a type of thermogenic messenger and over half of ephedrine effect is from beta-3 stimulation. Clen has almost no effect on beta 3 however. So by keeping the beta 2 receptors up, ketotifen can allow the benefits of continuous beta 2 and beta 3 stimulation from ephedrine.

      "Ephedrine is believed to have some direct effect on both alpha adrenoceptors and beta adrenoceptors, but AT THERAPEUTIC DOSES, ephedrine exerts its thermogenic effect almost entirely via stimulating noradrenaline release from the sympathetic nerve terminals [endings] . . . at least 40% of the [thermogenic] response is mediated by an atypical receptor, which is presumed to be the beta 3-adrenoceptor."

      from
      Liu YL, Toubro S, Astrup A, Stock MJ Contribution of beta 3-adrenoceptor activation to ephedrine-induced thermogenesis in humans Int J Obes Relat Disord. Sep;19(9). 678-685

      Enjoy
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    2. #2
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      Default Re: Ketotifen and Clen?

      Now my question is has anyone ever used this stuff before with clen? It seems as though they would do wonders together and it would be nice not having to run so much clen. Most Pep companies sell Keto.
      I never meant to be better than anyone, I was just born that way. Its hard being a god amongst peasants!

    3. #3
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      Default Re: Ketotifen and Clen?

      been aiming to.

    4. #4
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      Default Re: Ketotifen and Clen?

      yes awhile ago it works great stayed on 6 weeks got lean and hard 80 mcg clen ed 1mg kfen

    5. #5
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      Default Re: Ketotifen and Clen?

      1mg keto before bed ed and clen at 60 for about 10 wks. didnt have to ramp the dose up and down at all and the cool thing about keto is it helps offset the sleeplessness caused by the clen. it is a good investment if you want to offset the 2on 2off method of using a beta 2 fat burner
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      Default Re: Ketotifen and Clen?

      Hmmm, now this is one anti histamine that I have never tried but would like too
      Veritas Vos Liberabit

    7. #7
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      Default Re: Ketotifen and Clen?

      Quote Originally Posted by MOUNTAIN-MAN View Post
      yes awhile ago it works great stayed on 6 weeks got lean and hard 80 mcg clen ed 1mg kfen
      Cool i may look into it.
      Quote Originally Posted by guns01 View Post
      1mg keto before bed ed and clen at 60 for about 10 wks. didnt have to ramp the dose up and down at all and the cool thing about keto is it helps offset the sleeplessness caused by the clen. it is a good investment if you want to offset the 2on 2off method of using a beta 2 fat burner
      So you can really run it that long? How is it on your heart and body? I know clen is not the friendliest thing for us. Is it really safe to run 10 weeks?
      I never meant to be better than anyone, I was just born that way. Its hard being a god amongst peasants!

    8. #8
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      Default Re: Ketotifen and Clen?

      Quote Originally Posted by sofargone561 View Post
      Cool i may look into it.


      So you can really run it that long? How is it on your heart and body? I know clen is not the friendliest thing for us. Is it really safe to run 10 weeks?
      i dont condone doing it but at lower doses for an extended period of time it didnt jack my heart rate or bp up to high. so is it safe? probably not the safest choice but it is def doable as long as you dont jump up to the 100-120 range for extended periods of time
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    9. #9
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      Default Re: Ketotifen and Clen?

      Well I dont think I would run for 10 weeks. I guess my real question would be do you think running a lower dose with Keto for a longer period of time would be safer, as safe of worse then running 2 on 2 off? When I run 2 on 2 off i end up bumping up to 120mcg.
      I never meant to be better than anyone, I was just born that way. Its hard being a god amongst peasants!

    10. #10
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      Default Re: Ketotifen and Clen?

      Quote Originally Posted by sofargone561 View Post
      Well I dont think I would run for 10 weeks. I guess my real question would be do you think running a lower dose with Keto for a longer period of time would be safer, as safe of worse then running 2 on 2 off? When I run 2 on 2 off i end up bumping up to 120mcg.
      i am not a doctor by any means but personally i felt better running it lower for longer because it kept me from being cracked out of my mind. the cool thing about using the keto is it keeps you from having to increase the dose because your body isnt adapting to it at all. i would suggest give it a run for about 4wks and keep an eye on your heart rate and bp and make your own call with the low and longer run. that would be my best suggestion
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    11. #11
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      Default Re: Ketotifen and Clen?

      Yeah thats all im looking for im not looking for scientific just curious I dont want to hurt myself. I think I may try to run it out for 4 weeks and see how it goes. I would not start out trying to run 8-10 weeks.
      Thanks brother.
      I never meant to be better than anyone, I was just born that way. Its hard being a god amongst peasants!

    12. #12
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      Default Re: Ketotifen and Clen?

      Quote Originally Posted by sofargone561 View Post
      Yeah thats all im looking for im not looking for scientific just curious I dont want to hurt myself. I think I may try to run it out for 4 weeks and see how it goes. I would not start out trying to run 8-10 weeks.
      Thanks brother.
      haha, i would never make that kind of suggestion to anyone anyway. me doing it was due to having to compete short notice so i had to ramp up quick with no breaks. i kept an eye on everything though to make sure nothing was running to wacky to jack up my heart though.
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    13. #13
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      Default Re: Ketotifen and Clen?

      I am going to order some keto nexct week and give it a short run and try it out.
      I never meant to be better than anyone, I was just born that way. Its hard being a god amongst peasants!

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      Default Re: Ketotifen and Clen?

      nice thread, just learned something about keto. very cool, i was hesitant about utilizing clen again but may give it a go being that i can maintain a small dose.

    15. #15
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      Default Re: Ketotifen and Clen?

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      Clen jacked me up one time i almost puked in the gym. I took a small dose too. My wife though is like fuck it i run 50 no problem. i think i took like 25. She thinks shes so cool. I might try it out though with some t3 and keto if i am ever to compete. seems like injury after injury prevent that though lol.

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