Tweetwont gain much of that i doubt but it should give you a nice hard dense look if you really are 10% Bf. I personally love var.

TweetPersonally, i'd throw in some Test at maybe 500/wk along with it. But there are always many factors that go into this as well.

JMO

Tweetfor a 5 to 7 pound gain from your "cycle" why not just try some whey protein and creatine and some heavy training. should do the ticket and you won't suppress ur hpta and shut down your test levels for basically nothing.

Tweetthere is no way to put put on 5-7 lbs of real muscle in a couple months natural. maybe 1-3 lbs if you really are on target and focused.

Tweet500mg of test, and u held tons of water due that ur diet was bad..i bet my life on it
take 250 mg of test or 500 mg test for ten weeks and var 50 mg a day...25mg am and 25 mg b4 bedtime for 6-8 weeks.

if i was me and looking for a lean cycle run this:
week 1- 10: 250 mg test
win: week1-5: 50 mg weekend off
var week6 -10: 50mg weekend off

and u dont have to worry about gyno with this cycle.
good luck

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Originally Posted by SMILEY FACE

500mg of test, and u held tons of water due that ur diet was bad..i bet my life on it

The day you'd make such a bet would be your last =). My diet was, and has always been, extremely clean. Water retention and bloat with test is common, so I'm not sure why you're that surprised.

Everything that I read about test (from reliable sources), and what veterans from this side predicted, was exactly what I experienced during my cycle:

- incredible strength gains
- muscle pumps
- water retention
- accelerated hair loss

I was planning on those effects, I just didn't expect as much retention as I experienced. Also, I like the size that I gained, but those sorts of mass gains are no longer my objectives.

take 250 mg of test or 500 mg test for ten weeks and var 50 mg a day...25mg am and 25 mg b4 bedtime for 6-8 weeks.

if i was me and looking for a lean cycle run this:
week 1- 10: 250 mg test
win: week1-5: 50 mg weekend off
var week6 -10: 50mg weekend off

and u dont have to worry about gyno with this cycle.
good luck

That cycle looks interesting, but I will have to give it some serious thought. I'm not sure I want to mess with test again. Would anyone recommend a lean cycle that does not have a test base?

Tweetdude there is no way that you are getting that boated up from 500mg of test you could always do prop cause there is no way you will be holding water there. IM with smiley though that something in your diet has you holding the water. It's not to say that your diet isn't clean but to much sodium along with a cycle can really have you holding some water.

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Originally Posted by jamescb77

dude there is no way that you are getting that boated up from 500mg of test you could always do prop cause there is no way you will be holding water there. IM with smiley though that something in your diet has you holding the water. It's not to say that your diet isn't clean but to much sodium along with a cycle can really have you holding some water.

I agree, but I think we have a different idea of what constitutes "bloating". Maybe I've made it sound like I turned into a water balloon, but all I really mean to imply is that the effects I experienced, whether they are normal or not, are not what I am looking for in my next cycle. It's very possible that I didn't experience any bloat beyond what can be reasonably be expected with a test cycle, but regardless, I'd like to avoid it in the future.

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Originally Posted by malitz

I agree, but I think we have a different idea of what constitutes "bloating". Maybe I've made it sound like I turned into a water balloon, but all I really mean to imply is that the effects I experienced, whether they are normal or not, are not what I am looking for in my next cycle. It's very possible that I didn't experience any bloat beyond what can be reasonably be expected with a test cycle, but regardless, I'd like to avoid it in the future.

you obviously have your mind made up with the cycle you want to do. go and do it, just don't expect the vets and mods here to give you an "atta boy" as we obviously don't agree. any decent cycle will have a test base. anti-e's will obviously help with bloat if that is the concern. oral only cycle will always get a thumbs down from anyone who is knowledgeable about aas. you asked the question, you just don't seem to like the answer that you are getting in reply.

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Originally Posted by BigDawg

you obviously have your mind made up with the cycle you want to do. go and do it, just don't expect the vets and mods here to give you an "atta boy" as we obviously don't agree. any decent cycle will have a test base. anti-e's will obviously help with bloat if that is the concern. oral only cycle will always get a thumbs down from anyone who is knowledgeable about aas. you asked the question, you just don't seem to like the answer that you are getting in reply.

I wasn't looking for a pat on the back. I posted this thread to see if there might be an alternative to standard cycles when taking my objectives into consideration. I was hoping for responses along the lines of ...

"Well, I wouldn't do a cycle without a test base, but if I had to, this is what I might consider and these are the results I would expect."

Tweetok here you go i would do a prop and anavar cycle or prop and winni. this is actually what i plan to do next. but if you are so opposed to prop which i don't know why it doesn't sound like you have ever tried it then i would do winni only at 50mg but no longer than 8 weeks. many will desagree with me on this cycle and it's not what i recomend but it is what a fairly good cycle.

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Originally Posted by malitz

Everything that I read about test (from reliable sources), and what veterans from this side predicted, was exactly what I experienced during my cycle:

- incredible strength gains
- muscle pumps
- water retention
- accelerated hair loss

bro , dont get me wrong, the above^^^^ are abs right..i was not saying that with u wont hold water, u will no matter what even wt fast acting like prop....
but trust me when i tell u, u can diet and do 500mg of test WITH LESS WATER RETENTION(NOTHING LIKE BLOATING PUFFY LOOK) IF UR DIET IS RIGHT, I MEAN RIGHT..im not here to say u are wrong but to answer to ur question yes u can run winstrol and var without test and u can expect gaining like 5 pounds max of lean muscle mass...
got to go the pool now and will come back later on.

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Originally Posted by jamescb77

ok here you go i would do a prop and anavar cycle or prop and winni. this is actually what i plan to do next. but if you are so opposed to prop which i don't know why it doesn't sound like you have ever tried it then i would do winni only at 50mg but no longer than 8 weeks. many will desagree with me on this cycle and it's not what i recomend but it is what a fairly good cycle.

^^i agree with James if u want very min water from test(comparing to enanthate or cyp).
James, winny at 50 mg for 8 weeks is excellent and better than var alone.