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    Thread: Why Nolvadex Should be Avoided at All Cost

    1. #1
      snickers1's Avatar
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      Default Why Nolvadex Should be Avoided at All Cost



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      • Why Nolvadex Should be Avoided at All Cost
      • Why Nolvadex Should be Avoided at All Cost
      • Why Nolvadex Should be Avoided at All Cost
      Nolvadex is the trade name of a drug containing a molecule called Tamoxifen. Its primary use by male bodybuilders is to prevent gynecomastia (the growth of the breast tissue). It was introduced by steroid guru Dan Duchaine 25 years ago. After a quarter of century, it is time for an update about its use. What I am going to demonstrate is it is high time to eliminate Nolvadex from the bodybuilder's drug stacks.
      A Little Bit of History
      Back in the late 70's, more and more bodybuilders developed strange lumps around their mammary glands. At first, no one really took notice but more and more competitors grew a gynecomastia. In 1981, the M Olympia had a pretty serious gyno. This was shortly after the introduction of this new drug by Dan Duchaine. At the time, it was a pretty good idea as no one else could came up with a solution in order to prevent this growing problem. Nolvadex was popularised by Dan's first Underground Steroid Handbook. Dan even states that "this drug has a lot of potential but hasn't been used enough yet to find it". After more than 25 years of intensive usage, it is my opinion that it is time to forget about Nolvadex. Why? First, because newer and more effective drugs have been developed. Second, because it seems obvious that Nolvadex impairs muscle growth.
      Nolvadex and Muscle Growth
      After so many years of usage, it seems pretty clear that if Tamoxifen helps prevent the growth of the nipples, it also weakens the anabolic properties of steroids in a majority of bodybuilders. We are frequently said that this weakening effect is due to the anti-estrogenic action of Nolvadex. According to the fantasy, muscles require both testosterone and estrogens to grow at an optimal rate.
      This belief is derived from the results of studies showing that without estrogens, testosterone alone possesses minimal anabolic properties. By increasing the density of androgen receptors, estrogens render the muscles much more sensitive to testosterone (1). This has been demonstrated in a very specific muscle called the levator ani. But this muscle does not reflect what happens in the muscles bodybuilders are interested in (2). Estrogens have even been shown to reduce muscle fiber size (3-4). I think this effect of estrogens is closer to what we experience on bodybuilders.
      Another popular explanation of the weakening action of Nolvadex is provided by studies which have shown that it reduced the plasma level of IGF-1. I do not think this is a primary explanation.
      What Nolvadex Truly Is
      Most lifters assume Nolvadex is a pure estrogen antagonist (which would mean it prevents estrogens from acting on their receptors). As far as bodybuilding is concerned, this assumption is very wrong as Nolvadex is both an estrogen receptor agonist and an antagonist. It all depends upon the tissues. Along with the nipples, on which Nolvadex acts mainly as an antagonist, we are also interested by its behaviour on skeletal muscles, on the liver and on the fat cells.
      Nolvadex has been shown to behave as estrogens in skeletal muscles (5). This is a very good thing for every athletes except bodybuilders. You see, estrogens protect muscle cells from the training-induced damages (5-6). It means that one can train more without damaging his muscles. Recovery will also be much faster. But for bodybuilders, the training-induced damages are a key ingredient to trigger growth. Nolvadex will therefore reduce the muscle building effects of resistance training.
      As for the impact of Tamoxifen on IGF-1, it simply demonstrates another estrogen-like action of Nolvadex. By rendering the liver less sensitive to growth hormone (probably by reducing the liver density of GH receptors), estrogens and tamoxifen diminish the production of IGF-1. This action of estrogens explains why women produce less IGF-1 than men eventhough the have a higher GH level.
      Nolvadex and Muscle Definition
      Within 24 to 48 hours, Nolvadex is able to greatly increase muscular definition. As a result, bodybuilders assume Nolvadex will help them reduce their bodyfat level. But this rapid cutting action of Nolvadex is due to an anti-estrogenic action on water retention. Estrogens will make you hold water. Nolvadex will produce the opposite effect. But it says nothing about the impact of Tamoxifen on bodyfat. Depending upon your own production of estrogens and your estrogen receptor density on adipocytes, Nolvadex can act as an antagonist (which would help you lose fat) or an agonist. In that case, Nolvadex will make you fatter especially in the lower body area.
      Conclusion: if the introduction of Nolvadex 25 years ago was a brilliant idea, times have changed. Very effective anti-aromatase drugs (such as Letrozole or Anastrazole) have been introduced. They will fight gynecomastia, help prevent the anti-anabolic actions of estrogens, fight fat and water retention. They will also boost natural testosterone production far more effectively than Nolvadex. So, it is up to you to decide whether you wish impair your rate of progression with an outdated drug or move on to the 21st century.
      Don't worry about life, you're not going to survive it anyway.







    2. #2
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      Default Re: Why Nolvadex Should be Avoided at All Cost

      Interesting article!!!
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    3. #3
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      Default Re: Why Nolvadex Should be Avoided at All Cost

      bump...but never used nolv or got any gyno...i'am a luck man

    4. #4
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      Default Re: Why Nolvadex Should be Avoided at All Cost

      I been saying this all the itme, dont use nolva or use any antis unless you have gyno, ure just hurting urself, wallet, and gains



    5. #5
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      Default Re: Why Nolvadex Should be Avoided at All Cost

      Good post snick



    6. #6
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      Default Re: Why Nolvadex Should be Avoided at All Cost

      Quote Originally Posted by Skarhead, [B
      dont use nolva or use any antis unless you have gyno[/B],
      i said that too...bump for skar

    7. #7
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      Default Re: Why Nolvadex Should be Avoided at All Cost

      u get rep points for that skar

    8. #8
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      Default Re: Why Nolvadex Should be Avoided at All Cost

      Quote Originally Posted by BIG_MIKE1979
      i said that too...bump for skar

      back at ya



    9. #9
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      Default Re: Why Nolvadex Should be Avoided at All Cost

      amen

    10. #10
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      Default Re: Why Nolvadex Should be Avoided at All Cost

      I'd say that the title of this article is a bit extreme, I would also suggest that any newbie buy nolva before they start their cycle, You won't know if you are prone to gyno until you get it and you will need it for pct also, which this article doesn't address.......so if I were still a mod I would change your title for the benefit of newbies
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    11. #11
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      Default Re: Why Nolvadex Should be Avoided at All Cost

      Quote Originally Posted by Skarhead
      I been saying this all the itme, dont use nolva or use any antis unless you have gyno, ure just hurting urself, wallet, and gains
      i got a little puffyness and had run it for a week or so to make it go away, wish i didn't have to but i don't want big milkers
      Don't worry about life, you're not going to survive it anyway.







    12. #12
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      Default Re: Why Nolvadex Should be Avoided at All Cost

      Quote Originally Posted by snickers1
      i got a little puffyness and had run it for a week or so to make it go away, wish i didn't have to but i don't want big milkers
      on big milkers

    13. #13
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      Default Re: Why Nolvadex Should be Avoided at All Cost

      Quote Originally Posted by Slightly Enhanced
      I'd say that the title of this article is a bit extreme, I would also suggest that any newbie buy nolva before they start their cycle, You won't know if you are prone to gyno until you get it and you will need it for pct also, which this article doesn't address.......so if I were still a mod I would change your title for the benefit of newbies
      very good point!


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    14. #14
      snickers1's Avatar
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      Default Re: Why Nolvadex Should be Avoided at All Cost

      Quote Originally Posted by BIG_MIKE1979
      on big milkers
      i just didn't want to get girl boobies so when they got a little puffy and sore i dropped the nolv and then the prob was solved
      Don't worry about life, you're not going to survive it anyway.







    15. #15
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      Default Re: Why Nolvadex Should be Avoided at All Cost

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      • Why Nolvadex Should be Avoided at All Cost
      Quote Originally Posted by Slightly Enhanced
      I'd say that the title of this article is a bit extreme, I would also suggest that any newbie buy nolva before they start their cycle, You won't know if you are prone to gyno until you get it and you will need it for pct also, which this article doesn't address.......so if I were still a mod I would change your title for the benefit of newbies
      true ....if i had written it i would not have choosen that title but i read it somewhere and thought i would just share the info... good point thou
      Don't worry about life, you're not going to survive it anyway.







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