TweetMODS: don't move tghsi to the supplement forum. This is more of a discussion of a potentially potent cutting agent we may able to incorporate into our cutting routines.

TweetMODS: Please don't move this to the supplement forum. This is more of a discussion of a potentially potent cutting agent we may able to incorporate into our cutting routines.

TweetHere's ONE point of view:

Usnic acid or sodium usinate has NO practical application for the “Natural Bodybuilder.” It’s standard usage is to simulate a drug called 2,4 Dinitrophenol, a common ingredient in bug poison. DNP is what’s known as a classic uncoupler of oxidative phosphorylation, The body uses a lot of energy in converting ADP to ATP. Normally, the process is about 60 percent efficient, and the energy that’s not converted is wasted as heat, in this case body heat. DNP makes the process only 40 percent efficient by uncoupling the high energy phosphate from the ATP and turning the ATP into ADP, while the energy from the uncoupling is dissipated as body heat. Unfortunately the effective dose is very close to the “lethal” dose, with the individual literally cooking from the inside out. While usnic acid is not DNP, it is, hepatoxic, and also not worth the risks!

HE'S OBVIOUSLY NOT INTO IT :d

TweetHere's a DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE:

Hooray for Usnic Acid
(It’s safer than Brussels sprouts!)

Marti Mahaffey,
Chief Operating Officer of a Blue Cross/Blue Shield Company

At age 54, my doctor instructed me to lose weight to avoid potential heart and other medical problems. My doctor was emphatic, however, when she told me to avoid weight loss products that were loaded up with ephedra and caffeine stimulants.

Usnic acid, recently introduced as a new weight loss supplement, has dramatically caused me to lose weight (40 pounds!!!) on my diet over the last 4 months. This is an accomplishment I have never been able to achieve, even after years in the Weight Watchers program.

I feel a little warmer while taking the usnic acid-based supplement, but I get none of the jittery or anxiety side effects that I previously experienced with ma huang and caffeine based diet pills.

At my age, I usually do not bother to reply to absurd, or “yellow journalism” statements made by individuals who have made themselves self-proclaimed authorities and/or who have very little knowledge about a subject. I am an active health industry professional and normally do not have the time to argue with such demagogues.

However, I am old enough to remember the Sen. Joseph McCarthy Hearings with all the hoopla of “prove you are not evil or a vile communist” and I believe that as individuals we must speak out against obvious smear campaigns intended to inflame an unsuspecting audience, particularly when the smear campaign is based on unsubstantiated statements and, in some cases, clear misstatements of fact and logic. As such, I feel it is necessary to respond to a posting I found on Yahoo entitled “The most dangerous supplement ever sold” by Brock Strasser.

Apart from a clearly intense and personal vendetta that Mr. Strasser apparently has for a Dan Duchaine, the thrust of his irrationality is that usnic acid, being an uncoupler, is inherently “vile” and that since usnic acid has been reported (in one article) to be “clastogenic” or effect the “spindle apparatus”, it will cause all sorts of vile maladies such as hip replacements, cancer, and osteoporosis (in the future I suspect Mr. Strasser will imply you will also become an ardent Marxist if you use too much usnic acid!).

Let’s look at the facts.

Clastogenic effects or effects on the spindle apparatus imply chromosome injury. Does this impress me with the fear? NO. The natural juice extracts from Brussels sprouts, cabbage, cauliflower, kohlrabi, broccoli, turnips, mustards, and horse radish all cause dramatic clastogenic effects, and mutations, based on Ames testing (they are Ames test positive).

I guess (at least according to Mr. Strasser) we should immediately stop eating these vegetables (silly, isn’t it?). The above referenced study was published at the prestigious Institute of Tumor Biology and Cancer Research, University of Vienna, Austria and is entitled “Genotoxic effects of crude juices from Brassica vegetables and juices from phytopharmaceutical preparations and spices of cruciferous plants origin in bacterial and mammalian cells,” published in Chem Biol Interact; Vol 102, ISS 1, 1996, pp.1-16.

Based on all medical research found in an extensive search of current literature, these vegetables are far worse than usnic acid (a flavonoid). Usnic acid is Ames test negative!! As such, usnic acid is not clastogenic.

Further, the spindle apparatus article referred to by Mr. Strasser indicated that when mice were treated with HUGE doses of usnic acid they had a SLIGHT increase in red blood cells, thereby “suggesting” an effect on the spindle apparatus (cell division). The dosage given the mice was approximately 100 times the dosage found in diet supplements. The scientific literature supports the fact that usnic acid will not effect the spindle apparatus if taken in normal quantities.

Mr. Strasser also asserts that usnic acid is “vile” because it is an uncoupler and its action is similar to other chemical based uncouplers. Mr. Strasser’s logic then implies that all uncouplers are inherently “vile” (I’m happy I didn’t have the same professor and course in Logic 101 that Brock Strasser enrolled in). Ethanol, the drinking alcohol of which some of us occasionally partake, has a chemical structure of two carbons with a hydroxyl group (CH3 CH2 OH). Methanol, wood alcohol, has only one less carbon atom (CH3 OH) than Ethanol. People feel good and party when they imbibe Ethanol, they go blind when they imbibe Methanol. Enough said about Mr. Strasser’s logic courses and fear tactics— you get the point.

Mr. Strasser’s scare tactics are McCarthy’ism at its cheap best.

You can find Usnic Acid in a new natural weight loss supplement from TaeBo Fitness called MalibuTRIM.

Ms. Mahaffey worked at the White House, was an Assistant Regional Commissioner with the Department of Health and Human Services, and was a Deputy Regional Administrator with the Health Care Financing Administration prior to being employed in senior management roles with several state Blue Cross/Blue Shield organizations.

TweetOkay......LAST ONE (a "to-the-point" perspective: my favorite):

USNIC ACID


1. What is usnic acid?

Usnic acid is a naturally occurring metabolite that can be found in specific lichen species and kombucha tea. It has

been shown to uncouple oxidative phosphorylation similar to DNP. This process results in an inefficient use of

energy by the body. In response the body steps up ATP production, increases it’s metabolism, and burns a

tremendous amount of extra calories.

2. How long does it stay in my system?

Studies have been performed that show usnic acid has a half life of around 6-14 hours. This means that it stays

present and active in your system for quite a while. Studies have also shown the bioavailability to be as high as 78%!

3. What are the side effects or risks involved?

There are over 61 published abstracts showing the safety of usnic acid use. All of the information currently known

shows there are no irreversible side effects. Most usnic acid users report increase body heat and sweating. This

makes sense as the body has increased ATP production and is burning more calories. Some people report increased

tiredness or lethargy. A few users have reported developing a rash through usnic acid use. This generally came from

using a dosage that exceeded recommendations. Furthermore, the rash subsided in all users within a few days to a

week. As with anything, it is strongly recommended that you use caution when using a new supplement. Anyone with

an existing medical condition should seek a doctors advice before using an unfamiliar substance including but not

limited to: pregnant or lactating, high blood pressure, diabetes, heart condition, thyroid problems, liver disease. If any

symptoms develop, discontinue use and seek the advice of a medical professional.

4. What is the recommended dosage and how often should I take it?

The recommended dosage is 250-500mg per day. Because the half-life of usnic acid is rather long, it need not be

taken as frequently as an ECA or NYC for example. Many people like taking usnic acid in the morning and again in the

evening. Because of the increased sweating generally found, others prefer to take the full amount in the evening or

before bed. Some people choose to use an ECA in the morning/afternoon and usnic acid in the evening. This will help

combat any fatigue generated from usnic acid use. Start with 250mg (1 pill) for 2-3 days to assess tolerance and then

increase dosage. Note: some people have experimented with higher dosages of usnic acid with great success.

Exercise caution when increasing the dosage. Make sure to wait at least 2-3 days before increasing dosage beyond

500mg. Follow this same procedure for each gradual increment.

5. How long should I cycle usnic acid for?

In theory, usnic acid is an herbal ingredient shown to increase chemical thermogenesis on a prolonged basis. In

which case, it need not be cycled and thus could be used until desired fat loss is achieved. Even with that being said,

we disagree with the literature and recommend cycles of 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off. This idea comes from the base

premise that the body builds tolerance to nearly every form of stimuli.

6. Is there any other supplements I should take with usnic acid?

Usnic acid can be used alone with great success. Some people like to combine it with an ECA for an added energy

boost and additional fat loss. In general, a healthy and balanced regiment should be used with any supplement. A

good multivitamin should be used daily to ensure proper functionality throughout the body. In addition, it might be

beneficial to combine usnic acid with an antioxidant such as ALA.

7. What sort of diet should I maintain while using usnic acid?

Usnic acid is used to aid the body in fat loss. One should always keep in mind that a supplement is intended to assist

the body, not do all the work. In order to lose fat, one should always combine exercise (weight training and

cardiovascular activity) with a strict diet. In generally, to lose fat, one should ingest around 10 calories per pound

where 40% = carbohydrates, 40% = protein, and 20% = fat. Another excellent alternative is the ketogenic diet. This diet

is a little more complex, but more information can be found at https://forum.bodybuilding.com.

Tweetno one cares?

TweetBump.

I'm interested in hearing from vets that have exp with this.

TweetI just spent 2 hours searching this stuff all over the place. For every "positive" thing said.....there's one "negative".

TweetThats nasty stuff bro. That is what got lipokinetix shutdown! And damn near put derrick out of buisness, or in jail. I used lipo, and it is very effective, but makes you too damn lethargic to stay on it long enough. Not to mention, using it alone, it put my liver values sky high, and they have never fully recoverd!!

Tweet

Originally posted by Dragon
Thats nasty stuff bro. That is what got lipokinetix shutdown! And damn near put derrick out of buisness, or in jail. I used lipo, and it is very effective, but makes you too damn lethargic to stay on it long enough. Not to mention, using it alone, it put my liver values sky high, and they have never fully recoverd!!

Who's derrick?

Tweetfounder of syntrax

TweetI've used sodium usinate before (basically usnic acid) and I didn't find it to be too harsh for the 8 days I ran it. I only noticed side efffects when first using it and going over a gram a day. The lethargy abnd warmth is manageable when under about a gram, but once I upped it over a gram (topped out at 1.6 grams) I was taking 2 or 3 hour naps, sweating quite a bit, and had the worst migraines ever.

I still plan on running another cycle this year before spring hits.

Tweet

Originally posted by clm
I've used sodium usinate before (basically usnic acid) and I didn't find it to be too harsh for the 8 days I ran it. I only noticed side efffects when first using it and going over a gram a day. The lethargy abnd warmth is manageable when under about a gram, but once I upped it over a gram (topped out at 1.6 grams) I was taking 2 or 3 hour naps, sweating quite a bit, and had the worst migraines ever.

I still plan on running another cycle this year before spring hits.

Cool! How about using 1 gram all before bedtime due to lthe lethagy?