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Originally Posted by guns01

i only use an ai when i get ready for shows. not necessary for me because my estogen barley gets high. i am anti estrogen meds unless you need them. if you dont get sides and they are barely high then imho then you dont need them. same thing goes for using prolactin control when you dont have prolactin issues. dont put in more compounds that arent needed as a just in case. they come with a host of side effects and issues of their own

To each their own on that issue and a good case for getting bloods done. Everyone is different.

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Originally Posted by LittleTom

To each their own on that issue and a good case for getting bloods done. Everyone is different.

that's exactly what i was saying and i didnt point that directly at you but a lot of guys will throw this cycle or that cycle out and say you need this anti e and that. no blood work first or nothing to see that if you have a need. all these anti e except for aromasin in most people hammer the piss out of your lipids and do a bunch of other band stuff that the aas also do. that's one thing the other is caber and prami both have a nasty list of heart damaging side effects attached to them to bout. i know that it is supposedly long term use blah blah blah but if it is a possibility and you are taking it without even knowing you need it, are you really willing to risk heart valve damage or other heart probs? i am not. that's why i always say get your bloods done and let that estro get a tad above the normal side and grow your ass off. your ratios need to be balanced or growth will not occur and if you crush it, you got a good chance your mr happy wont work either haha. the only time i suggest crushing out your estro super low is when you are trying to get as lean as humanly possible prior to getting on stage. then and only then would i risk rolling those dice

TweetTry taskin prilosec or some kind of anti acid and a probiotiic, droI would be great of you can get your stomach to hhandle it.

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Originally Posted by guns01

i only use an ai when i get ready for shows. not necessary for me because my estogen barley gets high. i am anti estrogen meds unless you need them. if you dont get sides and they are barely high then imho then you dont need them. same thing goes for using prolactin control when you dont have prolactin issues. dont put in more compounds that arent needed as a just in case. they come with a host of side effects and issues of their own

I agree guns I'm the same I have gone for 4 years with no and did fine no need to add more Chems that u need I should know lol
I'm using adex now because of water weight but I would not normally use one. But everyone is diffrent

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Originally Posted by animal87

Try taskin prilosec or some kind of anti acid and a probiotiic, droI would be great of you can get your stomach to hhandle it.

Kifer and yougart with probiotics is great for my belly pain

TweetJust watch your RBc hemotocrit.. Etc are things to watch. Deca raises mine a little then the eq will a lot of course, drol will make it that much worse. But if yyou can keep it undercobtrol and find a way for it not to bother your stomach. Them that would be awesome for mass gains imo

TweetI have a bunch of tek ta anti acid I could take but I dunno I'll get my hands in injectible dbol for sure. But yah this cycle should be pretty sweet eh ?

TweetWhen I took dbol I had insane heart burn which I would never get otherwise. I had to take tums multiple times per day but it didnt help much, I dont think i could use that stuff again for that simple side effect.

TweetTo be honest, I think aas are very destructive in the body. Some more then others, I haven't felt so good since I've been off.

But my point is I think orals are really hard on stomach and toxic. I think that's why I feel the way I do when I take them.

Rbc was mentioned, how does this effect the stomach, and how do you lower it while taking something like eq. I would think you'd want the elevated rbc for oxygen levels nutrient aiding and faster recovery?

I'm going to seek lots of detoxifying supps and such for this cycle and see how I feel.

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Originally Posted by juiceman

To be honest, I think aas are very destructive in the body. Some more then others, I haven't felt so good since I've been off.

But my point is I think orals are really hard on stomach and toxic. I think that's why I feel the way I do when I take them.

Rbc was mentioned, how does this effect the stomach, and how do you lower it while taking something like eq. I would think you'd want the elevated rbc for oxygen levels nutrient aiding and faster recovery?

I'm going to seek lots of detoxifying supps and such for this cycle and see how I feel.

as i have gotten older i have become more anti orals and anti estrogen as possible. only time i use either one of them is for show prep and that's it. here is my take on orals for an offseason setup: ok the hammer the liver which is ok but when you stress the liver out it slows down fat burning protein processing, glycogen uptake/usage and igf production. all things that make your muscle grow which is what we want to accomplish. i know you can counter the effect with some really great supps out there but you also get an increase in bp for most and as you pointed out some people's stomach's do not tolerate them very well. both points i have already pointed out are going to affect your ability to gain. now take drol for a specific example: it is strong very strong and a great freaking compound but, water, bp and rbc issues normally arise even on the low end of dosage. now toss other aas into the mix that also raise rbc and you are setting yourself up for some troubles. i will admit that in my earlier years i didnt have as much of a pin point on health with these things but after playing around with what i do and people i work with do. i get better results with far less toxicity. yes i still have some people that do run orals but that is only if they tolerate them and we do short stints most of the time.

now on the rbc thing. you can offset your higher rbc by donating whole blood whenever you are able to do so. this will keep it in check for the most part for most people. you do want a little bit of raise in rbc but not too much. almost all aas do raise rbc but some more than others, and yes test only will raise your rbc. so tossing in eq and or drol on top of each other will crank it up rather quickly. i would pick one and roll with it to be on the safer side if it were me. your rbc shouldnt effect your gut health.

some things you can add in for detoxing during your runs and to help you feel much healthier and refreshed are: whole squeezed lemon in water first thing in the am every day. organic apple cider vinegar a few table spoons a day, sour kraut or other fermnted foods, pro and prebiotics, tudca, and a good cycle support product. add these few things i pointed out and i am sure i am forgetting a few but this can and will make a world of difference in most people

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Originally Posted by guns01

as i have gotten older i have become more anti orals and anti estrogen as possible. only time i use either one of them is for show prep and that's it. here is my take on orals for an offseason setup: ok the hammer the liver which is ok but when you stress the liver out it slows down fat burning protein processing, glycogen uptake/usage and igf production. all things that make your muscle grow which is what we want to accomplish. i know you can counter the effect with some really great supps out there but you also get an increase in bp for most and as you pointed out some people's stomach's do not tolerate them very well. both points i have already pointed out are going to affect your ability to gain. now take drol for a specific example: it is strong very strong and a great freaking compound but, water, bp and rbc issues normally arise even on the low end of dosage. now toss other aas into the mix that also raise rbc and you are setting yourself up for some troubles. i will admit that in my earlier years i didnt have as much of a pin point on health with these things but after playing around with what i do and people i work with do. i get better results with far less toxicity. yes i still have some people that do run orals but that is only if they tolerate them and we do short stints most of the time.

now on the rbc thing. you can offset your higher rbc by donating whole blood whenever you are able to do so. this will keep it in check for the most part for most people. you do want a little bit of raise in rbc but not too much. almost all aas do raise rbc but some more than others, and yes test only will raise your rbc. so tossing in eq and or drol on top of each other will crank it up rather quickly. i would pick one and roll with it to be on the safer side if it were me. your rbc shouldnt effect your gut health.

some things you can add in for detoxing during your runs and to help you feel much healthier and refreshed are: whole squeezed lemon in water first thing in the am every day. organic apple cider vinegar a few table spoons a day, sour kraut or other fermnted foods, pro and prebiotics, tudca, and a good cycle support product. add these few things i pointed out and i am sure i am forgetting a few but this can and will make a world of difference in most people

Thanks man it's nice to see that I can relate the same ideas with a well educated bodybuilder guru. It makes me feel more "normal" and helps me deal with my own body. I will def incorporate those detoxifying foods to my diet even in every day health.

As for rbc I hate getting intervenes what dosage of eq test and deca should I do to keep everything fine but gain like a mofo!

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Originally Posted by juiceman

Thanks man it's nice to see that I can relate the same ideas with a well educated bodybuilder guru. It makes me feel more "normal" and helps me deal with my own body. I will def incorporate those detoxifying foods to my diet even in every day health.

As for rbc I hate getting intervenes what dosage of eq test and deca should I do to keep everything fine but gain like a mofo!

if it were me personally i would go:

600 test (adjust if needed but you shouldnt because eq runs off pretty much the same mech as test does)
600 eq 16-20wks for full effect
400 deca (you can bump to 600 if you want but with the q and test in there i would roll with 400). i like npp myself better but that's just my personal pref because it kicks in faster and it doesnt have to be ran as long to see effects.

as long as your diet is on point their is no reason why you cant see some really good big gains off this. with the support stuff you should also feel great as well. add in the cycle support and maybe some good quality fish oils and you should be money

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Originally Posted by guns01

if it were me personally i would go:

600 test (adjust if needed but you shouldnt because eq runs off pretty much the same mech as test does)
600 eq 16-20wks for full effect
400 deca (you can bump to 600 if you want but with the q and test in there i would roll with 400). i like npp myself better but that's just my personal pref because it kicks in faster and it doesnt have to be ran as long to see effects.

as long as your diet is on point their is no reason why you cant see some really good big gains off this. with the support stuff you should also feel great as well. add in the cycle support and maybe some good quality fish oils and you should be money

and add the 6iu of hgh? I already bought 4 good kits lol.....