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Originally Posted by dirtwarrior

so it the prolactin sides that makes deca dick right?

i believe that to be the case. testosterone increases libido and the infamous name dd singles out that one compound.

however prolactin thrives off of estrogen so i also believe that by simply combating estrogen in the beginning phase and maintaining it there after (for any concerned with this issue) would help alleviate any prolactin related erectile dysfunction issues.

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Originally Posted by sensitivenips

i believe that to be the case. testosterone increases libido and the infamous name dd singles out that one compound.

however prolactin thrives off of estrogen so i also believe that by simply combating estrogen in the beginning phase and maintaining it there after (for any concerned with this issue) would help alleviate any prolactin related erectile dysfunction issues.

i am going to have to disagree with you completely on this theory. even with estrogen completely under control one can still have prolactin issues and side effects. you should see absolutely zero estrogen increase while using nanodrolone solo. nano does not convert to estrogen

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Originally Posted by sensitivenips

since we are on the subject has anyone tried flipping the recommendations to high nandrolone and moderate/low test?

i know when i first started out this was a big nono, but i think it all comes down to how you respond to the compounds as well as experience. for me personally i dont (knock on wood) get deca dick, so i have ran short esters with high npp and low test, and found it to be great. i also included on the daily cialis in my pre-wo. im no scientist but i do believe in receptors only utilizing x amount in our bodies, so the theory is to allow more usage of the nandrolone over test.

im interested to hear what others thought are on this outside of the typical bro science.

if you have no issues with deca or any other 19nor creating a prolactin issue you could do low/no test runs with them with success but if you have even a small increase in prolactin 9 out of 10 times you are going to see unwanted side effects like limp dick and even your nipples leaking.

it is common during the last 6wks or even more of a contest prep to completely eliminate test as well as other aromatizing compounds. does it cause issues in all? no it doesnt but it does in quite a few. you can have great success from this approach but you either have to combat the side effects. me personally if not on a prep i would rather go 1-1, 1-1 1/2 and even 2-1 depending on how hard i am pushing. i dont like to utilize anti estro caber or any other auxillary compounds myself because when you tank out these other hormones it creates even more of an imbalance which leads to even more side effects that and you need the others to make as many gains as possible.

as far as it being bro science with 19 nors it isnt. it is actually listed in the above research that dirt copy and pasted here. again just like every thing else though, each individual is different and will get different results and sides with anything being possible

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Originally Posted by guns01

if you have no issues with deca or any other 19nor creating a prolactin issue you could do low/no test runs with them with success but if you have even a small increase in prolactin 9 out of 10 times you are going to see unwanted side effects like limp dick and even your nipples leaking.

it is common during the last 6wks or even more of a contest prep to completely eliminate test as well as other aromatizing compounds. does it cause issues in all? no it doesnt but it does in quite a few. you can have great success from this approach but you either have to combat the side effects. me personally if not on a prep i would rather go 1-1, 1-1 1/2 and even 2-1 depending on how hard i am pushing. i dont like to utilize anti estro caber or any other auxillary compounds myself because when you tank out these other hormones it creates even more of an imbalance which leads to even more side effects that and you need the others to make as many gains as possible.

as far as it being bro science with 19 nors it isnt. it is actually listed in the above research that dirt copy and pasted here. again just like every thing else though, each individual is different and will get different results and sides with anything being possible

yikes! i skipped over dirts posts with the research. the comment about bro science was meant as a preventative measure for anyone who felt compelled to respond to a topic such as this by stating generalized info that they regurgitate from someone else. it wasnt meant about anything anyone had already posted.

i continue learning from your posts, and am very appreciative of the time you put into this site.

so if you were not concerned about prolactin sides then would you consider a 2-1 deca-test protocol as an option?

TweetI am still learning from the wealth of knowledge you guys have shared.

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Originally Posted by sensitivenips

yikes! i skipped over dirts posts with the research. the comment about bro science was meant as a preventative measure for anyone who felt compelled to respond to a topic such as this by stating generalized info that they regurgitate from someone else. it wasnt meant about anything anyone had already posted.

i continue learning from your posts, and am very appreciative of the time you put into this site.

so if you were not concerned about prolactin sides then would you consider a 2-1 deca-test protocol as an option?

like i mentioned before you most def could go 2-1 deca-test with probably no issues at all if it doesnt cause an increase in prolactin in your body. some can do so successfully with no issues at all. i can do it for up to the last wk of contest prep and hump like a mad man personally but that is with tren. i have never attempted it with deca or npp because they are always a secondary to my test in my off season lineup. i do take caber for those last 6wks of prep though because i want all of my hormones that cause estro or prolactin as close to crushed as possible to eliminate as much fat as possible. i am also not trying to actually gain any muscle at that point so i have no issue with crushing them for that purpose.

now would i personally suggest to someone to do a high deca to test ratio? probably not and if they were gung ho about it i would suggest starting at 1-1 and go from there lowering test if they tolerate it.

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Originally Posted by guns01

like i mentioned before you most def could go 2-1 deca-test with probably no issues at all if it doesnt cause an increase in prolactin in your body. some can do so successfully with no issues at all. i can do it for up to the last wk of contest prep and hump like a mad man personally but that is with tren. i have never attempted it with deca or npp because they are always a secondary to my test in my off season lineup. i do take caber for those last 6wks of prep though because i want all of my hormones that cause estro or prolactin as close to crushed as possible to eliminate as much fat as possible. i am also not trying to actually gain any muscle at that point so i have no issue with crushing them for that purpose.

now would i personally suggest to someone to do a high deca to test ratio? probably not and if they were gung ho about it i would suggest starting at 1-1 and go from there lowering test if they tolerate it.

i have run it as low as 1 to1 with the expected deca dicl problems, prolactin does not seemto be a issue with me

Tweetso if DD is not caused from prolactin, what causes it?

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Originally Posted by dirtwarrior

so if DD is not caused from prolactin, what causes it?

it is caused by an increase in prolactin which can be offset with either caber prami or higher test. that's how most combat the issue

Tweetso DD is 100% controlale
That is good

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Originally Posted by dirtwarrior

so DD is 100% controlale
That is good

absolutely and if you dont get an increase in prolactin then it is no problem at all. when fuzo said it hammered him really bad that tells me without even any blood work that it shot his levels sky high esp since it took him so long to come back down

TweetWhen I run Deca, I keep Prami on hand just in case. My last cycle was 400mg Deca and 600mg Test-Cyp a week, broken into E3.5D injections. I had no problem with DD.

TweetOn week 4 and my back feels great. No pain at all even when I use it a lot