TweetGuns I like your post. I learn a lot from them

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Originally Posted by dirtwarrior

Guns I like your post. I learn a lot from them

only reason why i suggest npp as opposed to deca just like with everything else everyone doesnt always respond the same so i would rather see you jump on something that is in and out quickly. that way if you dont like it or dont tolerate it you arent completely miserable for weeks while it clears out. same thing with mast e and p. best to test out the p first to see how you respond.

TweetI have taken mast e before and didn't have sides besides an enlarged prostate and hair falling out. Not a big deal really I can wear a doo rag or shave my head. The prostate reduced in size quickly once I went off mast. But all in all not a big fan of mast because I got so little out of it.
I have not tried deca before but I look forward to it. The sides are very mild compared to tren, I felt like a coiled spring on tren but the gains came on fast.

Tweetonly sides you may see are the typical 19 nor. no sex drive (keep test at 2-1 or at least a bit higher) and maybe some water retention. other than that it is actually a very well tolerated compound that does some pretty great stuff over all. i am still a bigger fan of npp over deca because you can keep it as short or as long as you want and still see all the benefits. with deca you are looking at 12wks normally at a minimal to see peak dose effect and the sweet spot being around 16-20wks. another down side to deca is it stores in your body fat while building up so if you are tested it can linger around for up to 18 months in some people. the little research i have read when the body fat breaks down the release of deca is minimal but you still will have some hanging around for a while. it is highly detectable though for that reason

TweetThanks for the info

Tweetby Bill Roberts - This drug is unique (so far as I know) in that 5a -reductase, the enzyme which converts testosterone to the more-potent DHT, actually converts nandrolone to a less-potent compound. Therefore this AAS is somewhat deactivated in the skin, scalp, and prostate, and these tissues experience an effectively-lower androgen level than the rest of the body. Therefore, for the same amount of activity as another drug at the androgen receptors (ARs) in muscle tissue, Deca gives less activity in the scalp, skin, and prostate. Thus, it is the best choice for those particularly concerned with these things.


Its effectiveness at the androgen receptor of muscle tissue is superior to that of testosterone: it binds better. Yet, it gives only about half the muscle-building results per milligram. This I think is a result of its being less effective or entirely ineffective in non-AR-mediated mechanisms for muscle growth.


It also appears less effective or entirely ineffective in activity on nerve cells, certainly on the nerve cells responsible for erectile function. Use of Deca as the sole AAS often results in complete inability to perform sexually.


These problems can be solved by combining with a drug that does supply the missing activity: e.g. testosterone.


Nandrolone is proven to be a progestin. This fact is of clear importance in bodybuilding, because while moderate Deca-only use actually lowers estrogen levels as a consequence of reducing natural testosterone levels and thus allowing the aromatase enzyme less substrate to work with, Deca nonetheless can cause gyno in some individuals. Furthermore, just as progesterone will to a point increase sex drive in women, and then often decrease it as levels get too high, high levels of progestogenic steroids can kill sex drive in male bodybuilders, though there is a great deal of individual variability as to what is too much.


Incidentally, this progestogenic activity also inhibits LH production, and contrary to common belief, even small amounts of Deca are quite inhibitory, approximately as much so as the same amount of testosterone.


To some extent, nandrolone aromatizes to estrogen, and it does not appear that this can be entirely blocked by use of aromatase inhibitors – indeed, aromatase may not be involved at all in this process (there is no evidence in humans that such occurs) with the enzyme CYP 2C11 being in my opinion the more likely candidate for this activity. In any case, Cytadren, an aromatase inhibitor, has not been found effective in avoiding aromatization of nandrolone.


The drug is moderately effective at doses of 400 mg/week. The long half-life of nandrolone decanoate makes it unsuited to short alternating cycles, but suitable for more traditional cycles, with a built-in self-tapering effect in the weeks following the last injection.




Nandrolone decanoate is the chemical name of active ingredient in Deca Durabolin. Deca Durabolin is a registered trademark of Organon Corporation in the United States and/or other countries.






Read more from this MESO-Rx article at: Nandrolone Decanoate (Deca Durabolin) Profile


Department of Clinical Chemistry, Glostrup Hospital, University of Copenhagen, Denmark.


The effect of anabolic steroid therapy and estrogen-progestogen substitution therapy on serum concentration of procollagen type III aminoterminal peptide (PIIINP), a measure of collagen synthesis, in postmenopausal women was studied in two double-blind studies: (1) 39 women allocated to treatment with either 50 mg nandrolone decanoate as an intramuscular depot or placebo injections every third week for 1 year, and (2) 40 women allocated to receive either 2 mg 17 beta-estradiol plus 1 mg norethisterone acetate daily or placebo tablets for 1 year. Serum PIIINP was measured every 3 months during the study. Anabolic steroid therapy resulted in a more than 50% increase (P less than .001) in serum PIIINP at 3 months, which thereafter decayed but remained significantly increased throughout the study period. Serum PIIINP showed the same pattern during estrogen-progestogen therapy, but to a lesser degree. We conclude that anabolic steroids stimulate type III collagen synthesis in postmenopausal women, while estrogen-progestogen therapy may have such an effect, but only to a lesser degree.

TweetNandrolone decanoate for men with osteoporosis.


Hamdy RC, Moore SW, Whalen KE, Landy C.
James H. Quillen College of Medicine, East Tennessee State University, Johnson City, TN USA.
To compare the efficacy and safety of nandrolone decanoate and calcium (NDC) with those of calcium alone (CAL) in men with idiopathic osteoporosis, a 12-month, randomized, prospective, controlled study, was performed in an outpatient clinic. Twenty-one men with idiopathic osteoporosis (as determined by radiological and dual energy x-ray absorptiometry findings) were randomly allocated to either 50 mg nandrolone decanoate intramuscularly (im) weekly and 1,000 mg oral calcium carbonate daily (NDC group) or to 1,000 mg oral calcium carbonate daily (CAL group). Bone densitometry (total body, left femur, and lumbar spine), serum, and urine biochemical parameters were measured at 3-month intervals. In the NDC group, bone mineral density initially increased, reached a plateau, and then decreased to near baseline levels at 12 months. Increases in lean muscle mass mirrored these changes. Free and total testosterone significantly decreased. Hemoglobin increased in all patients in this group. Patients in the CAL group exhibited no significant change in either total body or bone mineral density or biochemical parameters. Thus, nandrolone decanoate, 50 mg im weekly, transiently increases the bone mass of men with idiopathic osteoporosis in this preliminary study. Careful monitoring is necessary.

TweetWritten by Jose Antonio, PhD Friday, 06 April 2007


Nandrolone, which is fondly referred to as "Deca" (Deca-Durabolin), has the chemical name 17b-hydroxy-19-nor-4-andro-sten-3-one and is an anabolic steroid (a muscle-building chemical) that's present naturally in very tiny quantities in the human body. It's very similar in structure to the male hormone testosterone and has many of the same effects in terms of increasing muscle mass, without some of the more unwanted side effects such as increased body hair or aggressive behavior.


According to an article published in Newsweek International, by Jerry Adler (April 11 issue), "Anabolic steroids are inherently dangerous, no matter what else the pills may contain." Now anyone with half a brain would know there are few things that are "inherently dangerous" or "inherently safe" in life. Androgens (i.e., anabolic steroids) don't fall into either class, if the truth be told. But like ALL behaviors, there's a risk-benefit tradeoff one must consider. For instance, drinking water is certainly "safe" by any measure of common sense. However, if you drink too much water during a prolonged endurance race under hot conditions, you may suffer from the effects of hyponatremia (sodium levels in your blood become disastrously low) and in very, very rare instances, you can die. Certainly, no one in their right mind would suggest a Congressional hearing is in order. Oh my, what about the kids!?


As such, upon further analysis, reasonable minds can come to only one conclusion about nandrolone and the conclusion is that when nandrolone is used at a moderate dose and treatment duration, it's anabolic with little to no side effects! It's definitely not inherently dangerous.
For instance, the effectiveness of a biweekly regimen of 150 milligrams nandrolone with placebo in HIV-infected men with mild to moderate weight loss was compared to its effects against a Food and Drug Administration-approved regimen of recombinant human (rh)GH. In this placebo-controlled, randomized, 12-week trial, placebo and nandrolone (150 milligrams intramuscularly biweekly) were administered double blind and rhGH (six milligrams subcutaneously daily) was administered in an open-label manner. Participants were HIV-infected men with five to 15 percent weight loss over six months and on stable antiretroviral therapy for more than 12 weeks.


Nandrolone administration was associated with a greater increase in lean body mass (LBM) by dual-energy x-ray absorptiometry scan than placebo; however, the change in LBMs with nandrolone was not significantly different from rhGH. Interestingly, rhGH administration was associated with greater loss of whole body fat mass and higher frequency of drug-related adverse effects and treatment discontinuations than nandrolone and placebo and a greater increase in extracellular water than nandrolone. Nandrolone treatment was associated with greater improvements in perception of health than rhGH and sexual function than placebo. Researchers concluded that "nandrolone is superior to placebo and not significantly different from a Food and Drug Administration-approved regimen of rhGH in improving lean body mass in HIV-infected men with mild to moderate weight loss."2 However, the adverse effects were less with the nandrolone. Similar results for nandrolone decanoate therapy were found in women. According to these investigators, nandrolone "may prove to be generally safe and beneficial in reversing weight loss and lean tissue loss in women with HIV infection and other chronic catabolic diseases."3


In another clinical trial, the effects of nandrolone decanoate (ND) were assessed after a two-year treatment period. Yes, you read it right, two friggin' years!! Sixty-five osteoporotic women older than 70 years were studied. Thirty-two patients received injections of 50 milligrams ND and 33 received placebos every three weeks. All patients received 500 milligrams calcium tablets daily. What did scientists find? Compared to baseline, ND increased the bone mineral density (BMD) of the lumbar spine (3.4 percent and 3.7 percent) and femoral neck (4.1 percent and 4.7 percent) after one and two years, respectively. ND significantly reduced the incidence of new vertebral fractures (21 percent vs. 43 percent in the placebo group; p < .05). ND showed a significant statistical increase in lean body mass after the first (6.2 percent) and second years (11.9 percent). In addition, a two-year treatment with ND significantly increased hemoglobin levels compared to baseline (14.3 percent) and placebo. The science nerds concluded, "ND increased BMD, hemoglobin levels and muscle mass and reduced the vertebral fracture rate of elderly osteoporotic women."4 Wait, did you read that? In OLDER women who were osteoporotic, nandrolone helps improve muscle mass and bone mineral density. It also reduces the risk of fractures. No ‘roid rage, nobody committing suicide, nobody throwing 45-pound plates in the gym. You mean this stuff can actually be beneficial and safe? Egads!


Even low doses work in bodybuilders. Using a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled design, 16 experienced male bodybuilders (ages: 19-44 years) received either ND (200 milligrams per week, intramuscularly) or placebo for eight weeks. ND administration resulted in significant increments of body mass (+2.2 kilograms), fat-free mass (FFM: +2.6 kilograms) and total body water (+1.4 kilograms).5
What about something to help improve recovery of connective tissue? Well indeed nandrolone does the trick! "Data suggest anabolic steroids may enhance production of bioartificial tendons and rotator cuff tendon healing in vitro."6


Nandrolone even helps patients on dialysis. Medical records of chronic hemodialysis patients receiving nandrolone decanoate for greater than 30 days were reviewed. They discovered nandrolone significantly improved markers of nutritional status in hemodialysis patients. They also believe this therapy may enhance the hematopoietic or red blood cell-enhancing effects of EPO.7


So in summary, here's what we can reasonably say about nandrolone:
Nandrolone administration in moderate doses (no more than 200 milligrams per week) can increase muscle mass, increase fat-free mass and improve the function of patients with HIV, patients with low bone mineral density and patients undergoing dialysis. In addition, nandrolone can be an effective tool in promoting connective tissue healing.


That's what the science says!


Now what they print in newspapers may be different, for the sole reason that journalists are either too ignorant or too lazy to actually read the literature.

TweetBy Anthony Roberts


Nandrolone is a modification of testosterone (carbon atom removed from the 19th position) With an Anabolic/Androgenic ratio: 125:37, meaning it is highly anabolic (muscle building) and moderately androgenic (male characteristics). Due to nandrolones chemical structure it only aromatizes (converts to estrogen) slightly, at about 20% the rate of testosterone when it interacts with the aromatase enzyme. Ergo, estrogenic effects are not a major concern with its use. Of note, however, is that nandrolone is a progestin with a binding affinity of 20% to the progesterone receptor (15) (PgR), so side effects are still possible, though rare. The development of breast tissue in males (gynecomastia) has been reported in some steroid.com users. One of the most popular anabolic steroid used in bodybuilding cycles, nandrolone is also (medically) used to treat severe debility or disease states and refractory anemias.(1) It promotes tissue building processes, reverses catabolism (muscle destruction) and stimulates erythropoiesis (red blood cell production). This makes it a very useful drug to treat wasting disorders such as advanced H.I.V. (2)( 16), and also, makes it highly sought after by bodybuilders and athletes.


Nandrolone Decanoate, Cypionate, Laurate Cycles


Nandrolone is most commonly found with a cypionate, laurate, decanoate or plenylpropionate ester. Briefly explained, the ester determines how much of the given hormone is released over a period of time. Longer esters such as decanoate peak slowly and can keep stable blood plasma levels up to ten days, shorter esters such as the phenylpropionate peak more rapidly but the half-live is shorter. Shorter esters usually release much more active hormone per mg than longer esters, and of course, allow the drug´s effects to leave your system more quickly.. Surprisingly NPP (Durabolin) and ND (Deca) release almost the same amount of active nandrolone per 100mgs: 69% and 65% respectively; this does not correlate exactly though because blood levels of nandrolone are much higher (about doubled) post NPP usage compared to the same 100mg dose of ND. (see chart) NPP also has more distinct advantages over ND. One of the most common complaints about adding ND (Deca) to a cycle is the water retention that accompanies its use. (3) Gains from NPP are reported to be "clean" with minimal water retention and fat gain. While ND is usually used in "bulking" cycles, NPP is used in "cutting" cycles although either drug can be used in either regard. Being an oil based anabolic it is injected intramuscularly (into the muscle), many users inject it ED or EOD, however NPP can administered E4D without problems.


NPP, and nandrolone in general, has a number of benefits for athletes; it increases levels of serotonergic amines in the brain, these chemicals contribute to aggressive behavior, this could help athletes to train harder and improve speed and power.4 Nandrolone also increases levels of IGF-1 in muscle tissues.(5) This may be another way that makes nandrolone highly anabolic. NPP also benefits the athlete by increasing the number of androgen receptors (AR) one study showed that nandrolone given to rats at a dosage of 6mg/kg of bodyweight combined with muscle functional overload (muscle functional overload gives a similar effect to resistance training) had a 1,300% (!) increase in AR protein concentrations. (6) There is a direct link to muscle growth and AR levels. NPP also seems to be a promising fat loss agent, men given the drug had reduced levels of subcutaneous (under skin) adipose(fat) tissue, visceral (gut) fat loss was not as good however.(7) The fat loss effect seems though to be dose dependant, in one study NPP at a daily dose of 1, 4, or 10mg per kg of bodyweight the 10mg dose had the greatest effect on fatloss, thus displaying a dose respondant curve with NPP(8). The more you use, the more results you´ll get, with regards to this drug.


NPP is used to treat anemia by stimulating red blood cell production,(1) and an increase in RBC count can improve endurance during exercise via better lactic acid clearing and oxygen delivery. The blood is also better enabled to carry nutrients to muscle tissue to aid in repair, administration also increases the rate of muscle glycogen repletion after exercise helping the athlete dramatically improve recovery after strenuous physical exercise.(9) Athletes who require a high level of endurance in their chosen sport can benefit from the use of NPP.(15) A favorite with bodybuilders who suffer with sore joints, NPP can also improve collagen synthesis (10), which may improve joint function and alleviate joint pains. Many members of steroid.com swear by nandrolones ability to allow them to train in comfort.


Nandrolone Side Effects


Although many nandrolone lovers claim that it is one of the safest anabolic steroids, if not the safest. It does have side effects that can be bothersome in hypersensitive individuals, such as acne, excitation, insomnia, nausea, diarrhea and bladder irritability(1). More serious (and common) side effects include testicular atrophy (shrunken balls), impotence (deca dick) and gynecomastia (***** tits) (1). Nandrolone use has been shown to be safe and easy on the lipid profile, often improving HDL Cholesterol (16) Impotence can be offset by stacking the nandrolone with a higher testosterone. Nandrolone also causes the "shut down" (total stoppage) of endogenous (natural) testosterone production. Thus an exogenous (outside) source must be provided, the increased prolactin levels from the use of a progestinic steroid contribute to HPTA shut down and testicular atrophy which can be treated with a combination HCG (a female hormone that acts like LH when introduced into the male body) and bromocriptine (a dopamine receptor agonist that, among other things, can lower prolactin levels.) (1)(11) Besides using bromcriptine to lower prolactin levels, the anti-estrogens fulvestrant or letrozole on be taken to down regulate the progesterone and estrogen receptor.(12)( 13 )


NPP can be highly useful in either "bulking" or "cutting" cycles, and it would seem that diet and dosages are the determining factors of whether a cycle with this drug will be one or the other. Due to its highly anabolic nature coupled with low androgenic properties it can be incorporated into a mass cycle, usually stacked with testosterone and a powerful oral like possibly oxymetholone (Anadrol) or methandrostenolone (Dianabol). NPP can thus be part of a classic bulking cycle. For a cutting cycle NPP is usually be combined with other short-estered injectable anabolic steroids (testosterone propionate and boldenone acetate come to mind as likely choices) and one of the DHT derived orals such as stanozolol (winstrol) or oxandrolone (Anavar). NPP is said to produce good mass and strength gains in both cutting and bulking cycle phases (3). When one is planning a cutting cycle one must take caution if combining the 19-nor-testosterone derivative trenbolone with nandrolone. Trenbolone Acetate, although a powerful drug for lean muscle gains, strength, and fat loss is also a strong progestin with a binding affinity to the PgR of 60% (3x that of nandrolone). The elevated prolactin, can worsen HPTA insult, often causing the user to spend more money on preventative measures, the combo may also result in a difficult PCT protocol to regain natural testosterone production. So far few steroid.com members have any first- hand experience with NPP... limited to the few who know which UGLabs sells this particular form of nandrolone. This increases the popularity of "home brewing" ...since the powder comes out of China at very affordable prices. It is only a matter of time before NPP (or Durabolin) takes a special place in the arsenal of steroid.com members in their quest for more muscle.


Nandrolone Base + Phenylpropionate Ester
Molecular Weight(base):274.4022
Molecular Weight (ester): 150.174
Formula (base): C18 H26 O2
Formula (ester): C9 H10 O2
Melting Point (base): 122-124°C
Melting Point (ester): 20°C
Manufacturer: Organon
Effective Dose (Men): 200-600mgs/week (2mg/lb of Bodyweight)
Effective Dose (Women): 50-100mgs/week
Active life: 5 days
Detection Time: Up to 12 months
Androgenic/Aabolic ratio: 37:125

Tweeteven though i hate roberts he pretty much covered all the science of what we were saying here lol. great research dirt

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Originally Posted by dirtwarrior

Are the gains slow on deca?

Yes sr it's about week 6-7 for me when it kicks in so that is why I'll run deca a long time to get the most out of it

TweetAfter it kicks in how is it?

TweetI hope you all know that the info on deca was a cut and paste job