TweetVERY GOOD INFO HERE!
TweetA few words on deca and impotence... I would place an estimated guess that 90% of deca users experience some sexual dysfunction from nandrolones. That includes all esters, decanoate being the worst. Most already understand that nandrolones are a strong stimulator of the progesterone receptor. This is good and bad. There is a lot of debate over by what mechanism nandrolones lead to impotence. Personally I think it has to do with the progesterone receptors in the arcuate nucleus in the brain and those cells local secretion of prolactin but I really don't want to get into that here.
Here I want to describe what I've seen over the years in deca use. In the 80s everyone used deca. It was like an AAS base. A lot of guys got the dreaded droop from the drug and most machoed it up and said "not I". Well the gym groupies would let on what the real deal was. Lots and lots of guys have the problem. That's pretty much fact as most can reason from the 1000s of posts of users dealing with the problem.
It is unfortunate but the problem lasts a long time and its onset can be unpredictable. So, for instance, a user might do a full cycle with deca and experience only mild symptoms like increased sexual endurance, which might be viewed as a good side effect given the right girlfriend or wife. Then 4 weeks into the next run with it Dickie doesn't work at all. So the user goes through the common hoops listening to interweb lore upping the ratio of test to deca, adding in caber, hCG use, adding in proviron, adding in prami, and, while some relief might come from some of these interventions, nothing lasting comes from any of the.
Nandrolones seem to really whack the hormone axis in a way that lasts for many many months. The user might go completely off finally. Then the real fun begins. Size is lost and months after being off the impotence remains. So there is a tremendous blow to the ego. He has lost a lot of gains and his dick does not work mostly or at all. So he returns to AAS use convinced that he is hypogonadal and permanently so. On the test he goes and, while there might be some initial relief for a few weeks, the impotence returns. Now if he stays away from 19 nor compounds (including trenbolones) the impotence might subside but if any nandrolones are added in the situation will persist for much much longer. So this is a vicious cycle of confusion and suffering and the user will try many many things to relieve the situation... caverject, Viagra, Cialis, more prami, more caber, PT-141 etc... At various points he throws his hands up and adds in nandrolones reasoning that if the problem is permanent then at least he is going to benefit from the muscle mass and joint relief of the drug. This only makes the problem worse and longer lasting.
So what to do?
1. GO OFF!! If the user actually cycles (i.e. go off and on in a periodic fashion) and is under 50, he can recover from AAS use. That means he can go completely off AAS and eventually everything goes back to normal and Dickie works, natural gains can be made etc. This can take a year or even more depending on the user and what he has done to himself. I will say right here that most modern users will not take a year off. To them that is like being told to eat cat food and drink vinegar for a year. But it will work. The problem is it is a long process and the user will constantly be on the interwebs listening to every clown that can hit the keys on his PC telling him he is permanently damaged and to get back on immediately and do this or that protocol. So it rarely happens that a user will go off for long enough to recover. Another complication is that most modern users never ever ever come off so the user may have been on for several years. Such a situation can, but does not always, lead to permanent hypogonadism. So,the user reasons that going off for a year is ridiculous.
2. Stay on but away from trenbolones and nandrolones forever!! Eventually the symptoms of impotence will subside. They may not be completely resolved. Most don't understand that use of supraphysiologic levels of androgens/attenuated androgens does perturb the endocrine system. Since sexual function relies upon some resemblance of a normal endocrine system it should not be too difficult to understand that some level of impotence still will be experienced especially if nandrolones have thrown the system for a loop. However, eventually through nandrolone and trenbolone abstinence the problem will become more manageable with use of support medications.
3. Go off for a trial period!! Go off for 4-5 months. Do a strong PCT with hCG, Clomid and some Nolvadex and then stay off for some time. Go take a sailing class or something to keep your mind off your BBing goals. Get to the gym 3-4 days a week but stop obsessing about your body for 4-5 months. Wear a damn sweatshirt in the gym and stay away from the mirrors. Enjoy life for a while. Your body will come back in less than 8 weeks once you get back at it hard and add in the smallest amount of AAS again since your body will be at a new rested, recovered and eager state after the break.
During the break a number of sufferers will experience return of sex drive and erectile function. If that happens it was worth the hiatus. Then stay far far away from nandrolones and trenbolones or the problem will return and you will be older and further down the road of AAS use where recovery may be more difficult.
So cliff notes:
1. Nandrolones are a *****
2. Impotence cocktails offer no or only temporary relief especially when the sufferer stays on AAS.
3. Onset of impotence related to nandrolones in unpredictable. It can happen suddenly even after nandrolone use without difficulty.
4. Abstinence from nandrolone (and trenbolone) use is probably the best way to resolve nandrolone related impotence.
5. Resolution of nandrolone related impotence may take a year or more and demands that no other 19 nor AAS are used during that period of recovery and ever again if the user wishes to avoid the experience again.
6. Trenbolone use can also lead to impotence so beware.
Tweetbs. you have two options that work for the majority of people. 1- higher test to 19 nor ratio of at least 2-1 and 2 make sure you actually have legit caber and prami and use it while on and for the active half life of the product. blood work is essential to making sure you are controlling your prolactin. only thing i agree with is that if you have issues and arent responsible enough to fix it then just dont use 19 nor. also keep in mind these issues can be dose dependent in a lot of people as well. what's funny is some get the exact opposite effect with 19nors in the bed room department which is another reason why you cant lump issues into all users
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Tweeti did deca 1X. shut me down like lebron james playing a middle schooler in 1 on 1. that is good info but i will never try it again.
note: proviron helped me while on.
TweetWhile I agree with guns I will say this. I love deca in the winter and usually have zero issues but my last run killed me. I'm guessing my caber might have been bunk and my prami old, cialis seemed to stop working too, and I was using a new to me test that I'm positive was massively underdosed or bunk all together. I'm still working my way out of the woods! I'm almost 39, been in game a long time and never have had an issue like this!
Good read, it's always good to consider both sides of a coin. I def lean toward guns opinion though
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Tweethigher test to 19 nor ratio of at least 2-1 thats how I learned it and still practice but I have heard the new thing is higher 19 nor than test. I find it crazy but anyone here practice this?
TweetDeca hurts me so bad in the fun department I might use it once a year
TweetI use deca in at least two different cycles a year and have never had an issue. If anything I get the total opposite side of the coin.
TweetDo you get the same sides from tren.
Tweeti do with tren only and i will even drop test completely for over 2 months. i have zero issues myself other than not being able to finish at times. i also do not have to use caber or prami for prolactin control because mine doesnt elevate to badly. now i will toss it in near the end of a comp just as a measure to ensure that i dry out as much as possible. hell, i know a dude that actually lactaited out of his nipples while on 19 nor and had zero sexual dysfunction issues. he did get some really nasty prolactin gyno and leaked but never had sex problems at all. dude never did any blood work nor listened to the reason why he was having issues and just kept pounding dex like an idiot. you cant help them all haha
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Tweetanother thing that most dont think about with the limp dick issue is this: if someone tells you that that compound is going to make your dick limp and you get it into your head, then it quite possibly be your mind that is the issue. the mind is a very very powerful thing and you getting worked up and stressed out about your dick not working can have a profound impact on it actually working. that's just an observation that i have seen over time
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TweetNo sr me and tren are good freinds no sides at all
TweetSame here! LUV MY TREN
TweetReal good read IR !!!
I def like Guns info as well . Guns has a fuckin suitcase of knowledge which I respect and value !!! Always good to have a vet like him to answer any questions that come up .
I just started Proviron , as I'm on an off cycle and 50mgs Ed works great , but be aware to have plenty of it guys !!! That , aromasin , Caber , nolvadex , clomid . I learned that the hard way in the beginning . Shit I actually have to place an order now that I think of it . But the higher Test and lower Deca or Tren has worked for me . And I tried both ways , higher Deca or Tren to Test . That way made me very tired . Everyone's different tho , listening to the body is a BIG factor !!!
How about this guys . What about just dropping any nandrolones and just staying on Test , at a reasonable level or even a little bit on the higher side ? Wouldn't that just eliminate that problem ? And u can still keep and make huge gains just on Test , no ?
And what if u just drop Deca or Tren and just go with like Test and maybe Dbol or Drol ? Wouldn't that also eliminate the " limp dick " problem ???